1911 census - army quary...

[Tilly Mint]

I can see my great uncle on the 1911 census......

***MILITARY ANSBORO BENEDICT 1888 23 Overseas Military***

I've been kindly given his details.

It confuses me - why was he on the 1911 if he was'nt in England/Wales??

[Elaine ..Spain]

1911 census included military establishments and Royal Navy ships overseas.

[Tilly Mint]

Thanks Elaine.

He was based here...1st Battalion, South Lancashire Regiment, Napier Barracks, Lahore Cantonment, India...and was born in India.....would this still apply please.

None of his brothers are on it, although they served in the army.

I know - i'm a thicko...Lol

[Elaine ..Spain]

Does it not state the location on the 1911 image?

[Tilly Mint]

I have'nt seen the image, Elaine, i was just given the info.

[Tilly Mint]

Thank you

[SueNSW]

Jacky - not sure what else you know about the family - but Ansboro (if that is the correct spelling) looks to be an Irish name - and the first name of Benedict might well be further evidence of that. If Benedict was born in Rawalpindi there is every likelihood his father was also in the Army - and the Regimental Birth Index records appear to confirm this - his birth was registered in 1887 under the auspices of the 33rd Regiment.

Other Ansboro children registered in the same way - were:

Phelomena M - Kampee (1878)
Aloysius A - Lucknow (1880) - recorded with last name spelt Ansborough
Agnes A - Lucknow (1882)
Florence M - Nowshera (1884)
Bernard J - Aden (1889)

There was also a Cecil L registered in Jubbulpore in 1891 but registered by the 95th Regiment - so father could have been serving in another Regiment by that time (the 33rd are recorded as returning to England in 1889 - so if dad wanted to stay in India maybe a regiment change was the only way he could do it) - but there again possibly this one is a complete furphy

My understanding is that only British military establishments overseas were included in the 1911 UK census - if Benedict's brothers were possibly serving in the Indian Army - which was in some respects considered a "better" career path it would explain why they were not.

The Regimental Birth certs can be ordered in the usual way through the GRO if you need more family info - yell out if you need the references

Cheers
Sue

[SueNSW]

Again apologies if you know this already Jackie - but it looks like my surmising was right - dad looks to have been Augustine Ansboro (no surprise with a wonderful name like that he chose such grand sounding ones for his children??) who has a service record on Find My Past - he is recorded as born - Cloughpordan, Roscrea, Tipperary in 1852 and enlisted in the 33rd in Kamptee in 1876 and transferred to the 95th on 23rd September 1889 - being discharged in 1891

I haven't had time to plough through the record in any detail and there is some crossing out and faintness but he appears to have had service possibly in the UK prior to this enlistment

I notice that Cecil Lines Ansboro - born in Jubbulpore was a WW1 casualty

Again apologies if this is all known to you - it is good to know though that a gut feeling for me looks to have been confirmed

Cheers
Sue

[Tilly Mint]

Many thanks for the explanation Sue - much appreciated;)

The father - Augustine, i notice on his childrens certificates was in 3 regiments....
1880 - 33rd reg of foot
1882 West riding reg
1991 Derbyshire reg I have his army records.

Sue, i never thought of the other sons being in the "Indian" army - good thinking! i'll look to see what i can find. I believe Philomena had a chain of "posh" hotels and lots of army people/families would frequent them. I wonder if this all ties in with the "boys" somehow.

Thank you so much for all the hard work, Sue

[Trina]

The address where he is based is Napier Barracks Lahore Cantt Overseas military is written in for County.

He is a corporal in the 1st South Lancs Regiment

[Tilly Mint]

Yes, when Father Augustine retired from the army in c 1891, i next find him in 1895 - a 2nd marriage to Minna Collins - he is a police sergeant in Allahabad. My grandmother was Florence, she was disowned by her father for marrying a "commoner", i think this was my grandfather.........Lol. If only Augustine knew, my grandfather could have "bought and sold" them..... My grandfathers dad (same family level) was in a much higher position in the police.......LOL

[Tilly Mint]

Thanks Trina ;)

[SueNSW]

Many thanks for the explanation Sue - much appreciated;)

The father - Augustine, i notice on his childrens certificates was in 3 regiments....
1880 - 33rd reg of foot
1882 West riding reg
1991 Derbyshire reg I have his army records.

Sue, i never thought of the other sons being in the "Indian" army - good thinking! i'll look to see what i can find. I believe Philomena had a chain of "posh" hotels and lots of army people/families would frequent them. I wonder if this all ties in with the "boys" somehow.

Thank you so much for all the hard work, Sue

Jacky - the 33rd Regiment were also known as the Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment) and the Derbyshire Regiment were also known as the 95th Regiment - so he was only in the 2 regiments - presumably as suggested transferring when he did so he could remain in India when the 33rd (West Riding) returned to England

Don't know about the other brothers but Cecil who died early in WW1 was at the time of his death in the 2nd battalion of the South Lancs Regiment - they were in Ireland in 1911 - and I'm not sure whether they were recorded in the UK census as at that time Ireland wasn't really "overseas" - or if Ireland counted them in their census that year - or maybe because of this anomoly he missed out altogether??

Good Luck with your continued quest

Cheers
Sue

[Tilly Mint]

Sue, thank you for helping me understand the "regiments", i'm a dunce when it come to this :o

I had a lot of family in the Sth Lancs along with their in-laws in India, my grandmother 1st husband John Judge was in the 1st Battalion.

Your kindness is appreciated, Sue ;)