GRO certificate has arrived, BUT

[Sheila from Down Under]

Hello ---- I have been waiting for the GRO certificate of Donald Valentine Putullo born 20 Oct: 1908 in Toxteth Park to arrive. It has but ??? on it his father was John Gregor Patullo and his wife Elizabeth Aljo Patullo nee Keir. I have tried to find there marriage and date of there births but no luck. It is the middle names that have thrown me. Can anyone help please. father, John was a Surgical Instrument maker (journeyman) on the certtificate and they lived at 89 Upper Hill Street Toxteth Park Liverpool That is all I know

Sheila

[dicole]

Do you have them in the 1901 census ?
In Glasgow
456 St Vincent St
John G Patullo 26 Turgoal Instrument Maker (born Edinburgh)
Elizabeth Patullo 25 (born Ireland)
John Patullo 1 (born Glasgow)
Donald Keir 24 (boirn Ireland)

maybe they married there ? You will need to look on scotlands people.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Hi sheila

Have you found the couple in 1911 and if so, how long do they say they have been married?

Maybe irrelevant, but there is an Elizabeth PATULLO marrying in 1938, Toxteth Park - wonder if this is yours, a widow?

There are a couple of Patullo marriages which have alternate names, Scottish ones, so I wonder if this couple were originally from Scotland and married there maybe? (Keir is a Scottish name)

EDIT - Oh, great minds, Dicole, lol!!!

OC

[dicole]

Snap, oc.
I also found John G Patullo in 1891 with his parents John and Jemima in Edinburgh. I was really looking in ancestry to see what variations of PATULLO/PUTULLO there were.

Di

[Olde Crone Holden]

Too early to be yours, but it caught my eye as possibly relevant:

John Patullo or McFarlans
to

Ellen Coyne or Catherine Kent

1874 Sep q Liverpool.

OC

[dicole]

Scotlands people gives 1 result for John Patullo/Elizabeth marriage between 1895 and 1898. does not match for Elizabeth Keir/Kerr/Kier though. There's a Patullo/Keir match 1898-1901 which seems more likely. I don't have any credits for SP or I would look for you.

[Olde Crone Holden]

A quick search on Scotlands People brings up one marriage of "John Patullo" to female Keir, in 1898, but her forename is not Elizabeth....sorry, my credits have expired so I cannot see the details.


EDIT - LOL Dicole, are you following me or am I following you!?

OC

[Sheila from Down Under]

Hello thank you for looking. It is my OH part of my tree and it is littered with Pattullo/Patullo and all the varience in between . The family came from Scotland around Dundee I think, I think that Elizabeth Aljo Keir came from Irland ? it all starts with the family Knowing (?) Donald Valentine's name ,he died in his childhood. So I wanted to prove this true or other wise . Now his father John Gregor must be a brother to the family way back ???? Is there any way to find who John Gregor's father and mother are??? Gregor is not a name from the uk
Sheila

[dicole]

I think I'm following you OC.

in 1891 census, I found John G Patullo in Edinburgh with father John, mother Jemima, no other children at home, but in 1881

13 arthur St ( I think this is the same in 1901)
John Patullo 46 - printer pressman
Jemima Patullo 43
Robert Patullo 15
Peter Patullo 10
John Patullo 6

in 1871

5 West adam St Edinburgh
John Patullo 36
Jemima Patullo 33
Robert Patullo 5
Peter Patullo 1mo
Margaret Davidsen 16 (niece born Darnick Dumfriesshire)

Is this making any connections for you ?

Di

[Olde Crone Holden]

Well, if you look at the marriage cert of John Patullo to (Elizabeth) Keir, on Scotlands People, that should give you his parents' names. Scottish marriage certs are more informative than English ones.

OC

[dicole]

I am off to lunch, now, so OC can have the floor (or board, as the case may be)

Di

[Sheila from Down Under]

Thanks yes it is, but just an other quick question, when was in mandatary to regestory a still born?? as one of the Pattullo's said on the 1911 census that they had 1 dead child but we can't find it ??

[dicole]

According to Genuki, stillbirth registration started in 1 Jul 1927, a bit late for your purposes.

[Olde Crone Holden]

(Sorry, snuck off to bed!)

Di's correct about the stillbirth register, plus the stillbirth register is not in the public forum anyway, but how do you know the child was stillborn?

OC

[scuda]

Thanks yes it is, but just an other quick question, when was in mandatary to regestory a still born?? as one of the Pattullo's said on the 1911 census that they had 1 dead child but we can't find it ??

The children listed in 1911 are supposed to be those "born alive", which surely wouldn't include stillbirths?

scuda

[Dancing Sheila]

Here's what I have found on Scotland's People. There is a fly in the ointment but I'll come to it.

14 July 1898
John Gregor Patullo age 24 Surgical Instrument Maker (journeyman),
Father John Patullo Letterpress Printer,
Mother Jemima Copland

married

Lizzie Keir age 23
Father William Keir(decd) Tailor's Cutter,
Mother Margaret Young

Both resided at 455 St Vincent St Glasgow which is also where the wedding took place.
Wedding was according to the rites of the Wesleyan Methodist Church, officiating minister G Gibson.
Witnesses were Robert Robb and Margaret McLean.

13 June 1874
Birth of John Patullo at 3 Sciennes Pl Edinburgh.
Father John Patullo Letterpress Printer
Mother Jemima Archibald
They were married 28 December 1860 Edinburgh.

There is a correction which amends the name to John Gregor Patullo, which was filed by The Rev John Gregor of Fullarton Irvine.

28 December 1860
John Patullo age 26 Printer 6 Legats Land Stockbridge Edinburgh,
Father Peter Patullo (decd) Mason,
Mother Margaret Whitehead (decd).

married

Jemima Archibald age 24 34 Buccleuch St Edinburgh
Father Colin Archibald (decd) Soldier Prestonpans
Mother Jane Chalmers

The marriage took place at 3 Regents Ter Edinburgh according to the rites of the Church of Scotland. Maxwell Nicholson, Minister of the Tron Church officiated.
Witnesses were John McLean and Margaret Doughtie.

The fly in the ointment is Jemima's maiden name on John Gregor's marriage cert - Copland instead of Archibald, but everything esle seems to fit.

[Anne in Carlisle]

You mention that Gregor is not a name from Britain??? I consider it a very Scottish name!

Anne

[Uncle John]

The fly in the ointment is Jemima's maiden name on John Gregor's marriage cert - Copland instead of Archibald, but everything esle seems to fit.

Not necessarily a problem if mother Jemima got married again in the meantime.

[Dancing Sheila]

I thought of that UJ but it would have given both surely?

Anyway I have solved it I think.

John Patullo died Sept 1891.

Jemima Patullo nee Archibald died 1901. On her death cert it has mother's maiden name as Copeland so I suspect that when John Gregor got married she gave her mother's maiden name instead of her own. The only snag remaining is that on her own marriage cert her mother's maiden name is given as Chalmers!

According to the 1901 census John Gregor's 2 brothers are both married. Robert is in Edinburgh with wife Annie, 3 children and father in law and Peter is in Hamilton with wife Elizabeth.

Does this help? Or do you need wider family information?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sheila

I often have conflicting historical information on my Scottish certs so I wouldn't worry about it. The likelihood of there being TWO couples called John and Jemima Patullo is vanishingly remote I would think.

I suspect on my own - and on yours - that they got muddled when asked "Mother's maiden name".

You seem to be well on track with this so far.

OC