Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

In a right old muddle advice needed please

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In a right old muddle advice needed please


    Why would Samuel Keen head of House say he was born in Paris?
    No other records say this .

    I was sure this was my family but

    Have the Birth Cert for a John Thomas Keen born 21 Feb 1850 to a Samuel
    Keen a Printer and Sarah Keen nee Gill
    which is the right occupation for Samuel

    Think I have John's marriage in 1879
    says born abt 1854
    Father Samuel Keen a Copper Plate printer
    yet
    John Thomas Keen does not appear on the 1851 Census and I cannot find any of the family in 1861 before his marriage????

    There is a John Daniel Keen born 1853 in the 1871 census so I cant see them having two Johns in the same family ???

    any ideas please

  • #2
    Hi Val, been having a look at this, and it is a bit confusing! You mention a John Daniel Keen, but I could only find a John William born in 1853 on the IGI. The only thing I can think of is that maybe John Thomas died young, then they had John Daniel/William. Sometime along the way, as they did have rather a lot of children, they confused the name and Daniel thought he was Thomas (something similar to this happened with my grandfather, for his whole life he thought he was born 2 years earlier on his dead brothers birthday)- the family certainly does fit in the marriage and baptism. Unfortunately I cannot find any death reg to support this scenario. I see they also used the name Daniel for another of their sons. The Paris bit is a bit odd, and then all the rest of the family just entered as being born in England, very strange. Sorry can't really help more, just a couple of supposes.

    Linda
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Val, why not have two sons named John ?

      My A'Bear family did it for generations - John A'bear (b1698) named his sons John A'Bear (b1745) and John Burton A'bear (b1748). John A'Bear (1745) named his sons John A'bear (1784) and John Newell A'bear (1785) while John Burton Abear named HIS sons John Abear (1775) and Edmud Whitfield Abear. John A'bear (1775) named his sons John Burton A'Bear (1814) and John Daniel Abear (1816). John Daniel A'bear named his sons John Daniel A'Bear (1851) and John William A'bear (1853). John Burton Abear
      (1814) named his sons John Burton A'bear (1858) and John Edmund A'bear (1859). Fortunately they stopped about then - either did not have a son or had twins and called one John and the other Burton !!

      Are you confused ? I was. I can tell you it takes some time to get your head around them all. Very few of the myriad John A'Bears died infancy and we can only assume they were known by a nickname or their second name.

      About the "Paris" birthplace - perhaps the enumerator transposed the wrong line ? I have seen one where a visitor is stuck in the middle of my Tanner family, right where Edmund should be, I am sure its an error, but that's what the original says. Our Thomas Page said he was born in America, New York, in several censuses, but suddenly in 1901 someone decided he was born in Birmingham, like the rest of his family !!.

      Ancestry has a baptism for John Thomas Keen to Samuel a printer and Sarah in 17 Mar 1850, not 1854 in Hackney. There's a birth entry for John Daniel Keen in 1853 Strand London, but I cannot see a baptism for him.

      Di
      Diane
      Sydney Australia
      Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

      Comment


      • #4
        This is almost certainly a mistake by the original Victorian transcriber and it wouldn't be the first. (I have an ancestor called Susannah Bysh and it took ages for us Bysh researchers to find her in the 1871 census: the transcriber mis-read her surname as Blythe and that's how she appears in the census.) He may have mis-read the handwriting on the original census form, or he may have jumped a couple of lines and filled in something from someone else's form, or perhaps he was just daydreaming.

        Hope this helps!
        Looking for Bysh, Potter, Littleton, Parke, Franks, Sullivan, Gosden, Carroll, Hurst, Churcher, Covell, Elverson, Giles, Hawkins, Witherden...

        Comment


        • #5
          Of course, he could have been having a laugh! Seems strange that the two others below him just say 'England' - that's not usual either. I might suspect an enumerator's error or deliberate misleading (along the lines of 'Jedi' for religion in recent censuses! ) On the other hand it might be true :(

          Anne

          Comment


          • #6
            thanks very much everybody that sort of makes me feel more comfortable about them?

            It does seem odd that on the marriage banns of John Thomas it says born about 1854 ???? surely he must know when he was born ??? I have never seen that before .

            Unless he is John Daniel ?????????? who was of course born in 1853, as I cannot find him anywhere only on the 1871 census .

            I would have liked to find John Thomas on the 1851 census or at least his death .

            The Daniel bit comes from Sarah's Father who was Daniel.

            Whats also odd is I cannot find a baptism for the first child Sarah Susan 1843 , have found the next two Samuel John 1845 and John Thomas 1850 who were all born in Bethnal Green, yet cannot find any of the other 9 who were all born in The Strand ?????

            Comment


            • #7
              Val

              Took me ages to find my g g grandmother and g g grandfather because their named has been mistranscribed from Kilby to Kerlby and they had Manchester, Lancashire for my gg grandmother's birthplace and Yorkshire, Hull for my gg grandfather!!! They were born in Spitalfields, London. But I will say my gg grandmother was deaf so maybe the enumerator just didn't understand her.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi again Val, if you look at the IGI, children of Samuel and Sarah Keen born in Greater London, they list christenings for what appears to be 8 of their children in St Clement Danes, Westminster. Checking on the LMA records, ST Clements Dane does not appear to have been transcribed. You might want to check these out a bit more.

                Linda
                Linda


                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                Comment


                • #9
                  Linda you little Angel you
                  I have found all but one now including one christened John Wiliam Keen and not John Daniel as I had thought , the only one missing is the one before in 1843 yipeee thanks very much .
                  Thanks very much everyone

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    my cousins great grandfather is down as being born in paris on his sons birth cert, but he was born in mauritius! these things just happen. the wife cant decide on kyneton or carlton for her birth place either!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kyle I think Mile End and Paris are a little bit different ?? ;lol

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X