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  • Looking for Grandparents

    I've hit a wall. Looking for any info on Elizabeth Oram or Orum. She was born in c1750 in Northop, Flintshire, Wales and married John Roberts 13 Feb 1771 in Much Wenlock, Shropshire England. They had 4 sons:
    Samuel - 1773, Cornelius - 1775, William - 1777, Thomas - 1779. The census for 1861 shows she was living (111 yrs.) with son William.
    I have no furthur info on John and am not sure if he was born in Wales or England.
    Any help you can give would be appreciated.
    Thanks so much,
    Charlotte Roberts Russell aka Wawa
    Last edited by wawarussell; 22-02-10, 23:24.

  • #2
    Uh, not much help at all- but 111 years old in 1861 would be stupendously unusual and I wouldn't take the birth year as being gospel!

    OC

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    • #3
      Hmmm...my opinion.....highly unlikely i'm sorry to say.
      Totally agree with OC.

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      • #4
        I thought it highly unlikely too that someone could live that long. The census does provide her age, birth place and her sons correct name which made me think that possibly she was a miracle and did live that long.
        Charlotte

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        • #5
          I can't find her on 1861. Could you provide the reference please? Also have you found her on 1841 and 51?
          Jackie

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          • #6
            I've just found that 1861 (Wales)



            RG9, piece 4269, folio 74, page 23

            It definitely says 111. I think you need to find her on the earlier census to see what age was given there. Haven't managed to find her myself yet
            Jackie

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            • #7
              Perhaps, when asked how old she was, said 111 because that's how she was feeling that day!!! It would be an interesting death certificate to get if you can find it.

              Anne

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              • #8
                I wasn't disputing that's what it SAID - I was disputing that's what it WAS, lol. Considering the oldest person in Britain at the moment is 110, I would have thought an age of 111 in 1861 would have been all over the newspapers!

                I have seen a death in the parish registers of a man aged 142. The Vicar has written diplomatically in the margin "A great ayge".

                OC

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                • #9
                  I have had a good search of English and Welsh 1851 and 1841 censuses and can find no trace of them. Its hard to be certain with the names. I did think William's wife Winefred would be easier to find but no luck . Its just possible that William married Winefred in 1858, Conway district. The age of 111 is extremely clear on the 1861 census but as OC says - who can believe it. However there are no really likely candidates born in Northop, Flinthsire of any suitably old age.

                  Perhaps they had Elizabeth embalmed in a cupboard!!!!

                  Anne

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                  • #10
                    I don't have a sub to Ancestry so cannot look, but there cannot be many women aged 100, 101, in 1851, never mind what their names are!

                    OC

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      You'd be surprised ;D

                      If you look at 1851 Wales and just enter female b 1750 + or - 2 you get 41 hits.
                      1750 + or - 5 gives you 110 hits - and that's just Wales !!

                      There is an Elizabeth Robert aged 98 but she is allegedly the wife of a 59 year old and I think it probably says 58 and not 98. In any event she was born in Llantrisant, Glamorgan
                      Jackie

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                      • #12
                        I agree that if she had lived to be 111 it should have at least been the headlines of the local paper (if they had one). I like the ideas that she was in the cupboard or just feeling that old (-:. Either way, I don't think I'm going to find out anything more about her or husband Robert. I tried to find a death cert. but to no avail. I hate these brick walls. I am going to Utah, USA in Oct. and participate in 5 days of doing research with professionals helping me. That's where the huge LDS Library is and they offer these trips about 4 times a year. Hopefully I'll find answers.
                        Charlotte

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Jackie. I'll check out the 1851 census as you suggest.

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                          • #14
                            Hello Charlotte - I thought I'd join in the hunt too.......and did come across an Ann Roberts in the 1851 census who may fit the bill.

                            she was a visitor - wid - aged 97 a pauper born in Flintshire (Overton)
                            staying with Thomas Davies and his family. Thomas was married to Mary and was 46 and an Ag Lab from Shropshire.
                            They were living at Duddleston Heath Shropshire

                            Now, Elizabeth may have been baptised Elizabeth Ann and known as Ann by some members of the family. I had an Auntie - Phyllis Dunwell who was always called Annie by family but Phyl by her friends. (you probably already knew that story..lol)

                            I have just looked on the map - and Overton and Duddleston Heath are just a hop, step and a jump from each other - so I would hazzard a guess that this is the correct lady - but some of the UK people might like to just check these places out in case I'm wrong - I'm not that good on my geography of that particular area.
                            Last edited by Val and George; 24-02-10, 05:56.

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                            • #15
                              Must be something about the name ! In 1861 census, there is another Elizabeth Roberts born in Northop in Bradwell Cheshire who is said to be 103 years and another one in Tarvin Cheshire who is 104.

                              In the 1851 census there are 10 Elizabeth Roberts in Wales said to be born before 1770, making them over 80. In 1841 there are more than 15 Welsh Elizabeth Roberts born in Wales before 1770, most seem to be 90y.
                              Last edited by dicole; 24-02-10, 09:06. Reason: more
                              Diane
                              Sydney Australia
                              Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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                              • #16
                                Must be something about the name
                                Funny Di - but I had the same thought

                                It certainly seems a coincidence!
                                Last edited by Val and George; 24-02-10, 10:45.

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                                • #17
                                  Yes, I agree with all those mentioned. I'd looked at them as well and wondered. Several of them are in quite a small area on the Welsh border.

                                  Anne

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                                  • #18
                                    This is really getting confusing. I just looked at the 1861 cesus again and according to it William was 78. If this is the case then he wasn't born in 1777 as my info has shown but the info on Elizabeth is right on. Now I'm wondering which info is correct.
                                    Hi Val, Good to hear from you again. You mentioned that Elizabeth was living with a Thomas Davies and family, but I have no idea how this would play into this whole scheme of things., By the way what's the story on Phyllis? I've heard nothing about her but would be interested in finding out what happened.
                                    I do know one thing.... We should all legally change our name to Elizabeth Roberts (-:
                                    Thanks for all your input. Even though we haven't found anything concrete, I appreciate all your help
                                    Charlotte

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