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  • Elusive birth details.

    Can anyone help me find the birth details for my Grandfather Edward Hale ,He was married to Mary Ann Arnell on11Sept.1892 in the parish church Islington.On the marriage certificate his father's name is given as Alfred with an occupation of Stone Mason.
    Edward died in Islington Jan/Feb1907 aged 50 years.. Any help or advice will be most welcome

  • #2
    Can you give a few more details about Edward and Mary Ann, so I can find them in the 1901 census to check where Edward was born ? Occupation, any children before 1901 ?
    I cannot find, in Islington, any Edward Hale's with father Alfred in 1861 or 1871 census, so need to look further afield.

    Di
    Diane
    Sydney Australia
    Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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    • #3
      Elusive birth details

      Thank you Dicole for your input,Edward and Mary Ann lived in 30 Hollingsworth Street Islington London.
      Their children were -Malvina B1897
      -George Edward B1898
      -William B1899(my father)
      I do hope that this is of help,William

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      • #4
        In 1901 their surname is down as HALES which is why Di won't of been able to find them.

        On his marriage on the LMA records the vicar has written HALE but Edward has signed HALES.

        This is a little early but there is a baptism in 1854 at St Mary, Islington of Edward Hales the son of Emma Hales of the workhouse. Did this Emma married an Alfred?

        There seems to be another George Hale(s) born in Islington at the same time but he is the son of George & Charlotte Eliza according to the census.

        In 1891 in Hammersmith there's an Edward Hales born about 1856 at Islington, a bricklayer but he has a wife Catherine aged 27. Also in the household is Agnes S Morris, a widow aged 36, born Islington. She'd listed as the head's sister. A search of the LMA records shows an Agnes Sarah Hales married George Morris in 1879, Agnes' father is listed as George Hales, a bricklayer.

        This Edward along with wife Catherine & sister Agnes appear on the 1901 census so this family can be ruled out as being the one your looking for.

        Trying to see who Emma Hales married.
        Jay

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        • #5
          Hales?

          [QUOTE=JayG;1980472]In 1901 their surname is down as HALES which is why Di won't of been able to find them.

          On his marriage on the LMA records the vicar has written HALE but Edward has signed HALES.
          On his marriage cert. his name is signed as Hale, but as the writing is similar on all the entries on the cert.he is unlikely to have signed it himself
          Did this Emma married an Alfred?
          The workhouse local to St Mary's had an infirmary attached to it which was available to the local poor, births there were generally recorded as being at 129 St John's road Islington..
          I will look to see if I can find any connection there.
          Thank you for your time .WillG

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          • #6
            I thought it might under HALES or HALL, that's why I was after a birthplace. I did find them in 1901, just wasn't sure if it was the right one. But can't see anyone with father Alfred in 1861, so am backtracking census by census.

            The only Edward HALE(S) born before 1861 in Islington don't have a father Alfred - I looked at one Alfred and Rebecca, but they married too late, about 1870.



            Di
            Last edited by dicole; 19-02-10, 23:20.
            Diane
            Sydney Australia
            Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=WillG;1980529]
              Originally posted by JayG View Post
              In 1901 their surname is down as HALES which is why Di won't of been able to find them.

              On his marriage on the LMA records the vicar has written HALE but Edward has signed HALES.
              On his marriage cert. his name is signed as Hale, but as the writing is similar on all the entries on the cert.he is unlikely to have signed it himself
              Did this Emma married an Alfred?
              The workhouse local to St Mary's had an infirmary attached to it which was available to the local poor, births there were generally recorded as being at 129 St John's road Islington..
              I will look to see if I can find any connection there.
              Thank you for your time .WillG
              Will is the cert you have a copy from the GRO. If it is all the writing will be in the same hand, this was done at the end of the quarters by the local Register Office & a 'copy' forwarded to the GRO. What I found on Ancestry was an a 'true' copy of the marriage record in several hands, i.e. signed by all parties etc. Like I said in my reply the vicar has written HALE but Edward has signed HALES.

              If you want to see it PM me your email address & i'll send you a copy of it.

              I found 2 Emma Hale(s) that married Alfred's but tracing them forward on the census Edward didn't appear in any of the households.
              Jay

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              • #8
                Oh forgot to say if he hadn't signed his name on the cert it would of said X the mark of Edward Hale.
                Jay

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                • #9
                  Hale/Arnell Marriage.

                  Originally posted by JayG View Post
                  Oh forgot to say if he hadn't signed his name on the cert it would of said X the mark of Edward Hale.
                  Thank you for the PM. I will try to concentrate on the Hales now,though over the years only Hale has been used by the family
                  best wishes.
                  WillG

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                  • #10
                    Hales?

                    Looking at the Baptismal record of Edward ,I had not thought of the possibility that his father Alfred may not have married Emma his Mother, this presents a new problem
                    WillG

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                    • #11
                      do you think there is a possibilty that the Alfred Hales and Emma Hammond who married in 1870 in Islington are the parents ???? but as they weren't married when Edward was born he was registered as Edward Hammond ??
                      Just an idea, but then I do get crazy ones .

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                      • #12
                        Following your idea, I was directed to the Old Bailey site where I found that an Emma Hale was a witness at a trial, I do not think that it has taken me any further forward yet but I did spend a very entertaining couple of hours looking through all the statements, Thank you for the input I will still follow it through and try not to be distracted again (some hope)
                        Best wishes,WillG.

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                        • #13
                          Hi

                          Just curious did you find your Edward in the 1891 census?
                          WendyP

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                          • #14
                            No, I have looked through the 1891 Census, but have been unable to find an Edward with Alfred for a father born about 1856. I do have his marriage and death certificates but have been unable to go further.
                            WillG

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                            • #15
                              Hi

                              Was there an actual address on the marriage cert that we can check agianst the 1891 census for you?

                              Wendy
                              WendyP

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                              • #16
                                Edward lived at the time of marriage at 2 Offord road Islington.
                                Mary lived at 43 Alfred street Islington.
                                I do not know if these are just accommodation addresses, they moved house often after marriage .
                                WillG.

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                                • #17
                                  Well he's not at either address saldy. What did it say on marriage cert for Edwards occuaption? And who were the witnesses?


                                  Wendy
                                  WendyP

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                                  • #18
                                    Edwards occupation at that time is listed as Bricklayer, His father as Stonemason,
                                    The witnesses were Henry Ellis and Fanny Ellis.
                                    I do hope that this is of help,I appreciate your help
                                    WillG

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Well the witnesses turn out to be possible relations of Edwards bride the Arnells. I was hopong it mihgt have been Edwards possible direct relation - sadly not.
                                      WendyP

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