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  • Quick look up on 1901 census

    Is is possible for the parents of Arthur C Grantham to be looked up on 1901 census?
    He is on 1901 census in Holborn but cannot be distinguished from all the possibles on 1911
    I know he married in 1920

    Parents name from 1901 would help me eliminate duplicated names, as it appears he was away from London on 1911.

    Thanks
    Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

    Researching:
    FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

  • #2
    The census ref is: RG13/252 fo 52 p 38

    Arthur C is with his grandmother, Susannah GRANTHAM, 51, widow, b Waltham, Hants, dressmaker, at 20 Collier St. (Not same household as Sarah A & William ADAMS, contrary to the presentation on Ancestry.) Perhaps you can find Susannah earlier, to match her with her family?

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Now that has really confused things, as Susannah shows on 1881 Census in London as Susan Grantham unmarried born N Waltham Hampshire.
      Unmarried, but she is is grandmother on 1901 census????
      I have found her poss death on BMD as 1916 in Shoreditch, but cannot find her on 1911 census.

      Was hoping I could quickly put together a framework for a friend who is visiting today, on her tree, but seems that this family are going to be a problem.

      Have looked on IGI and there are no Granthams in N Waltham Hents recorded after 1836
      Last edited by TrevorFranklin; 14-02-10, 14:26.
      Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

      Researching:
      FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

      Comment


      • #4
        In 1891 at RG12/227 fo 21 p 35
        Susannah, already widowed at 41, is with her older sister, Harriet, & BiL, Jasper WILKIN. Her son, Arthur, 21 (b Surrey), single, cab driver, is with her.

        In 1881 at RG11/355 fo 18 p 30
        Arthur (10, scholar, b Brixton) is with the WILKINS family, and described as Adopted Son (or "Adapted" Son, according to the Ancestry transcription!). There's a Charles GRANTHAM, too, 19, railway porter, b Maidenhead.
        At RG11/21 fo 88 p 8
        "Susan" (31, unm, servant, b N Waltham), is a cook in the household of Richard & Anna PHILLIPS.

        In 1871 at RG10/683 fo 66 p 27
        Just to make life interesting, Chas A GRANTHAM (10wks b Lambeth) and his mother Susannah GRANTHAM, 21, unm, domestic servant, are staying with the WILKINS family.

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          Have looked on IGI and there are no Granthams in N Waltham Hents recorded after 1836
          This is true, but the WILKINS family tells you that Susannah's sister was called HARRIET, b 1835-6 in North Waltham.

          IGI batch K139461 has HARRIET GRANTHAM, baptised 10 JUL 1835 North Waltham, d/o Richard GRANTHAM & Amelia. Using the batch number, you get sisters for Harriet: Ann (bap 4 AUG 1833) and Betsy (bap 25 DEC 1836). You don't get any more hits if you switch to batch J139461 (which I'd hoped would show up some brothers). I couldn't get any marriages to show up for Richard & Amelia.

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            HOWEVER!
            in 1871 RG10/1291 fo 63 p 17 (White Waltham)
            I have found Charles GRANTHAM, 9, b Maidenhead, scholar - with his parents, John GRANTHAM, 39 (b N Waltham), hurdle maker, with his wife and family.

            IGI batch J139461 has John GRANTHAM bap 23 OCT 1831 North Waltham, s/o Richard GRANTHAM & Mary. I can't find any more potential siblings with parent Richard.

            It looks as though the Charles GRANTHAM in 1881 is a nephew(-in-law) of the Head, and of Susannah's - not her son.

            Christine
            Last edited by Christine in Herts; 14-02-10, 14:48.
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

            Comment


            • #7
              This looks like Susannah, still at home - with Richard & Amelia, and siblings - in 1861: RG9/711 fo 59 p 17
              age 11, scholar.

              There's a younger brother, Frank Watts GRANTHAM, age 1, b St Giles, Middx.

              And here's the whole family (apparently) in 1851: HO107/1681 fo 592 p 3
              including Richard & Amelia, John, Harriet and baby Susannah.

              Christine
              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

              Comment


              • #8
                In 1841 HO107/386/25 fo 3 p 3
                The whole family, again (pre Susannah, of course) - including Ann, Harriet and Betsey, and John - and some other siblings.

                There is then a bizarre switch. There are two older children in the same household, listed ahead of the other children and with the surname CLEEVE: a 15-year-old female, whose given name is unreadable, and a 13-year-old male called George. If you look in the IGI (K139461) for CLEEVE baptisms in N Waltham there's a Frances CLEEVE, b 21 NOV 1825, and bap 23 NOV 1825, North Waltham, d/o Richard CLEEVE and Amelia. In batch J139461 there's a George CLEEVE bap 24 MAY 1829, North Waltham, s/o the same parents (by name, anyway).

                Make what you can of that!

                Christine
                Last edited by Christine in Herts; 14-02-10, 15:11.
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  IGI member enteries (though we do not always trust these), have a Richard Cleave/Cleve marriage to an Amelia Taylor, but date far too early at 1783.

                  From what you wrote, you are telling me that on 1841 is Richard and Amelia with their family AND these Cleeves?
                  What is the age of Richard on the census, as I found a RichardGrantham baptised in North Waltham 1804, parents Thomas and Hannah

                  I wonder if these cleeves are just a red herring
                  Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                  Researching:
                  FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So Richard and Amelia are in North Waltham on 1841 and 1851, but by 1861, they are in London?
                    Last edited by TrevorFranklin; 14-02-10, 15:46. Reason: corrected text to make it more understandable
                    Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                    Researching:
                    FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maddeningly, I just wiped a detailed post about this lot by refreshing the page!

                      There's a Richard CLEEVE (21, of Dummer) / Amelia TAYLOR (minor of North Waltham) Winchester marriage licence for 26 Aug 1825 at North Waltham.

                      There's also an IGI (M136542) marriage for Richard GRANTHAM / Maria MUNDAY, 15 OCT 1820 Basingstoke.

                      Whether/how these fit together I can't tell at this stage.

                      Christine
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Richard's ages:
                        1841 ~ 37 (so, presumably, this is accurate/ish)
                        1851 ~ 46
                        1861 ~ 56

                        The 28 OCT 1804 North Waltham baptism would fit with those ages.

                        Christine
                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wonder if these cleeves are just a red herring
                          I don't think they're a red herring. I do think there's some sort of oddity, though. Whether Richard changed his name for a while for some reason? Or there was a double error in the licence and registers... but there are actually two children who retain the CLEEVE surname, so that seems unlikely.

                          It's a real puzzle, I reckon. Perhaps we can recruit some other brains? The easiest thing I can think of is to set up a fresh thread with an intriguing title, and then include the link to this thread for all the detail so far.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So Richard and Amelia are in North Waltham on 1841 and 1851, but by 1861, they are in London?
                            No Richard and Amelia are in North Waltham - but must have been in London in about 1860.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've just spotted a baptism, 12 Dec 1827, at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, for George CLEEVE, s/o Richard CLEEVE, laborer, & Amelia, of Granby Place.

                              Sorry - I got mixed up, here... [Something odd going on here - perhaps the first George died? There's no DoB in the register, so nothing to suggest that George (1827) had been born significantly earlier.]

                              Of course, 1827 fits better with being 13 in 1841 - but not with being born in county (Hampshire).

                              Perhaps he was born & baptised in London in 1827, but baptised in N Waltham in 1829 to get parish rights.

                              Christine
                              Last edited by Christine in Herts; 14-02-10, 16:49.
                              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Christine,
                                What was Charles' mother and sibling names please?

                                Quote"
                                in 1871 RG10/1291 fo 63 p 17 (White Waltham)
                                I have found Charles GRANTHAM, 9, b Maidenhead, scholar - with his parents, John GRANTHAM, 39 (b N Waltham), hurdle maker, with his wife and family.
                                Last edited by TrevorFranklin; 14-02-10, 16:53. Reason: forgot to add the quote
                                Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                                Researching:
                                FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                                  In 1841 HO107/386/25 fo 3 p 3
                                  The whole family, again (pre Susannah, of course) - including Ann, Harriet and Betsey, and John - and some other siblings.
                                  Would you be willing to give names and dob's?

                                  Thanks
                                  Trev
                                  Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                                  Researching:
                                  FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    About to dash off to choir practice pre Choral Evensong - and then dinner out with husband. May not have time to give detailed info before tomorrow, sorry.

                                    Christine
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ok Christine,
                                      I really appreciate your help any way.

                                      Regards
                                      Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                                      Researching:
                                      FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Husband has to put car away - including turning it round, so will take longer route to turn-around and drop me off at church. Time for one lot...

                                        1871 CHarles's mother etc:
                                        Mary A 37 b (unreadable) Bucks
                                        John 8 (WHite Waltham)
                                        Thomas 6 (?Durley)
                                        Richard 1 (WHite Waltham)

                                        Christine
                                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                        Comment

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