The custom of naming a child with the same name as their surname...is it regional?

[Liz from Lancs]

While researching my friend's tree in Oswaldtwistle, Lancs, I have come across:

Townley Townley and poor thing:
Cockshut Cockshut...

Anyone know if that is a Northern thing?

I know within living memory children being named Doctor, Lord, Admiral etc as first names in this area.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Liz


OOOOOOOOOH yes, it is a Lancashire thing!

From my tree:

Holden Holden
Fish Holden
Holden Fish
Fish Fish
Briggs Holden
Holden Briggs
Fish Briggs
Briggs Fish
Briggs Briggs
Pickup Holden
Holden Pickup
Briggs Pickup

and so on and on and on and on. They thought it was funny.

OC

[JayG]

I've got an Oliver Oliver, tho he did have middle names Hugh Dickinson, so guess he was know as Hugh or Dick.

[Liz from Lancs]

OC - that is a wonderful collection! Can you imagine a situation in a classroom where teacher has to call a child by name and they are perhaps from a fairly deprived background. Now...Admiral Hawthornthwaite...and stop that Cockshut Cockshut...and as for you Lord Pickup...

My friend who is nearly 80 and grew up in Padiham said he thought parents named their children these elevated names such as Doctor etc because it made them sound grand. Or mother just having had a baby says to the doctor, "We are going to name him after you, doctor...he will be called doctor."

Jay - always good to have a selection of names to choose from...maybe to develop different personas to go with them for different occasions!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Liz

The Lancashire male forename of Doctor comes originally from the belief that a tenth (!!!) son had medicinal and healing powers, lol.

I also have Squire, Captain, Lord, Baron, Earl and so on. I think those names came out of the sarcastic sense of humour of the Lancashire lot.

Another reason I've just remembered for these peculiar double names like Cockshutt Cockshutt...Oswaldtwistle like Darwen (my ancestors' stamping ground) was a small and isolated community for centuries and very inbred. Many people had exactly the same names, so the tradition developed of giving people nicknames. Some parents forestalled this nicknaming by giving their child a "distinctive" name like Holden Holden (oh, what a lack of imagination....) which often reflected some of the family history - a grandmother's maiden name or whatever. In a small village like Ozzle, or Darwen, there were just too many John Holdens and some way had to be found to distinguish between them otherwise you'd spend all day explaining which James Holden out of the 27 you were talking about!

I am lucky that I know some of these nicknames - John o' Pegs, John o' Bills, Ralph o'th'back ' th' heights, Owd Timothy, Owd Timothy o'the Looms and so on. But I admit there are some days when I wish I could get some of them by the throat and say "Couldn't you have come up with a better name than JOHN for your Holden child?"

OC

[Harrys mum]

I will say it again..............

Lancashire is not part of the normal world..............lol

[Darksecretz]

in my tree it was stated that ONE of the children be named after the family doctor, so thats what they did, gave him the forename of Doctor!!! poor soul

[Liz from Lancs]

Thanks for that info OC..it's good stuff. Oswaldtwistle is known locally as Ozzie/Ossie. Having typed it numerous times now, I go for the abbreviation.

The friend I mentioned above has let me have a booklet entitled Gobbin Tales. It's a compilation of interviews about the old days, poems etc about Ossie. Gobbin I am told means gormless and this article explains more about those who lived above the lamp:

http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2005/6/23/431751.html

Here is another good link about Ossie Gobbiners:

http://www.wangigirl.com/website/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_printable&PAGE_id=47&lay_quiet=1

Here is a more informed article:

http://archive.theboltonnews.co.uk/2004/1/10/512594.html

[Olde Crone Holden]

Actually, I rather hate Oswaldtwistle if I think about it too much. It is part of Accrington and that drives me utterly crazy when it comes to research, because Accrington has never known where it is - is it part of Clitheroe, is it part of Whalley? Is it even in Lancashire - it is in Yorkshire sometimes.

I wouldn't call Ossies gormless, more low animal cunning!

Thanks for the links, some of that made me larf!

OC

[Liz from Lancs]

OC Are you talking about early research - pre 1841? As I can't go into the Records Office, I might have to advise my friend to find another person to take his tree back beyond 1800.

I've not done any E Lancs research before so it is a great novelty to actually know the places and be able to visit them if I wished. I like Ossie people I have met - quirky and enjoy a bit of 'crack'.

[Peter Stenning]

I have a female called Mabel Montgomery Stenning and its definatly correct and she is a Girl.
Born 1887

[Liz from Lancs]

Erm...would that be oop North by any chance, Peter?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh, I have lots of people in my tree who have ordinary sort of names, with a surname as a middle name and I think this is pretty universal.

What does seem to be a variation specific to Lancashire, is the Holden Holden, Cockshutt Cockshutt sort of name.

I nearly forgot my piece de resistance - Fish Fish Fish! Yep, really.

OC

[Liz from Lancs]

OC!! Now that is showing off! I can't stop laughing...do you think they did it for a joke...

[Olde Crone Holden]

Liz

no, I think they were deeply dim.

OC

[Liz from Lancs]

Now just cos your Holdens etc have high connections, there is no need to look down on your gobbiner ancestors!

[Mary from Italy]

One of my BiL's Warwickshire ancestors has the Christian name Mister (wrongly transcribed as Mr in many places), which I thought was odd. However, according to a tree I've found on Ancestry (not yet confirmed) , it was a surname in that family several generations earlier.

[Liz from Lancs]

Mary that would cause some problems finding on census - but I expect once you know what to look for. It's a fascinating subject.

[Harrys mum]

I have generations of males named Myles..............then along pops one named Milonis.....they must have wanted to upgrade a bit.
Once again in Lancashire.

However the others are quite normal. Most do use their MMN as a second name, but that's OK. Helps no end with sorting one Jane, David or Myles from another....lol

[Somerset Sal]

I did find a Cooper Cooper in a Sussex marriage register.

I've started a collection of the amusing or unusual names I come across: my favourites so far are Barnaby Fling and Marmaduke Crate.