Help me out please !

[Tilly Mint]

I'm in a bit of a pickle here so any help would be great please

I have a Arthur John Judge born c1879, (alias John) he has his father as Robert (deceased) on his marriage cert in 1904. This marriage was in India, i think John was born in Liverpool - i have never found his birth. I have of late, been told by a recent contact that his mother was Susannah and she may have been married a few times. The surname "Tully" has been mentioned as being her single name.
I also have his death cert for 1921( Liverpool) his sister was the informant, her name was Margaret Judge and quite a few years younger than Arthur. I am also led to believe there were more siblings.

I have found in the 1881 census, Susannah with husband Peter and daughter Anne......but no Arthur (John)

I have some mentions of him in the London Gazette - just says he was a Regimental Sergeant Major with the South Lancs Reg. I have his medal cards.

My struggle is around his family....I have been told by my new contact that Johns siblings had different fathers. I wonder if John was born out of wedlock and he adopted Peters name??

Can you help me out please, my Ancestry subs have just run out as well.......i've lost the plot with this family.

Thanks

[JayG]

LOL Jacky, got an image of you in some pickle!

Is John over here in 1911 & on the census? I'm guessing not :(

[Tilly Mint]

Yes Jay, i found this but havent got subs to see the transcript

JUDGE FLORENCE MABLE F 1885 26 Liverpool
JUDGE JOHN M 1880 31 Liverpool
JUDGE MARGARET F 1892 19 Liverpool

Pickle...Lol

[JayG]

Doing some searching on the 1911 census his birth place is listed as Liverpool.

Having a look at the other census' at the mo.

[Trina]

1911
John Judge - Head - night watchman in works - builders joiners contractors - born Liverpool
Florence Mable Judge - wife - married 5 years - born Howshera Punjaub- India
Margaret Judge - sister - general domestic servant - born Liverpool

No children alive or dead
21, Cornwallis Street Liverpool

[JayG]

What's the surname for Susannah, Peter & Anne in 1881?

[Tilly Mint]

Thanks Trina - much appreciated !

Jay, its Tully.

[AlanC]

Been tryin' very hard but without success on Ancestry, Sorry.

[Trina]

You're welcome. I'll let Jay do the difficult stuff

[JayG]

Or even Judge!

[Tilly Mint]

Aww, thanks Alan - the're a slippery old family...Lol

[Tilly Mint]

Or even Judge!

Oops, sorry, i was thinking of her single name !

[Night Owl]

This is the 1881 you found with Susannah and Peter Judge.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LANRG11_3615_3619-0706&fn=Peter&ln=Judge&st=r&ssrc=&pid=8765872

They're at 15 New Hall Street and at the same address but a different household are

James Tully 34
Catherine Tully 31
and children Patrick 7, Catherine 2, Margaret 7 months all born Liverpool

[JayG]

Can't find Peter, Susannah & Anne in 1891?

Can't find a marriage of a Peter Judge to a Susannah?

[Tilly Mint]

Thanks Jackie - maybe extended family?

Thanks Jay, the family member i have just made contact with in Canada, is as baffled by this family as i am.

[Night Owl]

Susannah could be James Tully's sister if this is the right family in 1861

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=LANRG9_2676_2679-0505&fn=James&ln=Tully&st=r&ssrc=&pid=23039853

30 Brick Street, Liverpool

Michael Tully 40 dock labourer b Ireland
Mary 39 b Ireland
James 14
Catherine 7
Susannah 2

Sorry, doesn't help with your original question but might add to the clues

[Tilly Mint]

Thats great Jackie, now i have Mary and Michael her parents.

Thank you !

[JayG]

Ah not wonder I couldn't find James Tully on the previous census, I thought what Jackie had posted was from 1891, but see it's 1881!

Off to look again, doh!

[JayG]

1871 Brick Street, Liverpool

Mary TULLEY Head widow 52 Charwoman B Ireland
Catherine dau 16 Servant B Liverpool
Susan dau 12 Servant B Liverpool
Johney (which has been crossed out & John written) son 8 B Liverpool
Margaret Mathews sister Widow 30 b Liverpool
Charles Bond nephew 15 Painter B Liverpool - this line has been crossed out?
Ellen Redington Aunt Widow 63 B Ireland
Bridget Redington Aunt 40 Widow Basket woman B Ireland - this line has also been crossed out?

[Tilly Mint]

Yay...Thanks Jay, they are calling Susannah, Susan on there.