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1871 and 1881 Scotland Census Look Up Pls.

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  • 1871 and 1881 Scotland Census Look Up Pls.

    Hello

    Cannot find someone on the Census:

    Alexander Milne (Also known as Alexander Davidson or Alexander Gordon Davidson Milne). Born 1840 Huntly Aberdeenshire.

    I have him on the 1841 and 1851 Census at Huntly, 1861 at University of Aberdeen and his death cert 1888 Huntly Mill.

    Need him on the 1871 and 1881 if anyone can find him. He might be a teacher, and had links with Drumblade.

    Thanks

  • #2
    did he marry at all Richard?
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      Its difficult to know which is your ancestor there are so many Alexander milne's, do you know his parents or weather he was married etc.

      Could this be him in 1871.

      Alex G D Milne M A in Clarence
      Age: 31
      Estimated birth year: abt 1840
      Relationship: Lodger
      Gender: Male
      Where born: Huntty Donnick, Aberdeenshire
      Registration Number: 288
      Registration district: Forfar
      Civil parish: Forfar
      Town: Forfar
      County: Angus
      Address: 21 Lettlecauseway St
      Occupation: Rector & Clareical Masker
      ED: 7
      Household schedule number: 106
      Line: 18
      Roll: CSSCT1871_55
      Household Members:
      Name Age
      Isabella Dickson 60
      Susan Dickson 49
      Elizabeth Howie 14
      Alex G D Milne M A in Clarence 31
      John Main 19

      Regards

      Tralena

      Comment


      • #4
        there is this one, 1871 he is a schoolmaster in B.U.T with wife and children.

        http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1871&indiv=1
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          and here in 1881

          Alex G D Milne
          Age: 41
          Estimated birth year: abt 1840
          Relationship: Lodger
          Gender: Male
          Where born: Huntly, Aberdeenshire
          Registration Number: 168/2
          Registration district: Old Machar
          Civil parish: Old Machar
          County: Aberdeenshire
          Address: 25 Rose St
          Occupation: Student In Theology Aberdeen Univy
          ED: 26
          Household schedule number: 141a
          Line: 17
          Roll: cssct1881_53
          Household Members:
          Name Age
          Margt Coutts 39
          John Hepburn 15
          Alex G D Milne 41


          Tralena

          Comment


          • #6
            He was not married no, at least not according to his death certificate. He was a student/teacher of divinity and theology and became an ordained minister shortly before his death so looks as if those are him. Many thanks for the asistance!
            Last edited by Richard; 12-02-10, 12:47.

            Comment


            • #7
              alexander gordon davidson milne

              Originally posted by Richard View Post
              He was not married no, at least not according to his death certificate. He was a student/teacher of divinity and theology and became an ordained minister shortly before his death so looks as if those are him. Many thanks for the asistance!
              Alexander is my husband's great grandmother's uncle. I am in possession of his wallet engraved Rev. Mr Milne. What is your interest in him?

              Comment


              • #8
                Hello Jacq

                Alexander is also an uncle to my 3xgreat grandmother Eslpet Troup/Gordon (1829-1890). Her youngest son, my great great grandfather Alexander Milne Gordon (1868-1929) was named for him. I would certainly be interested in your own link to him and happy to share the information I have gathered on the family.

                Regards

                Richard
                Last edited by Richard; 02-06-12, 14:28.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm away from my main computer with my tree, but I'll lay bets I've got them on my tree as well. If not, they'll be the only Gordons and Milnes I don't....lol Will get back as soon as I can access the other computer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello Richard,

                    Alexander G D Milne was the youngest son of Barbara Milne (maiden name Grant). She had three older sons by her husband Alexander Milne, a dyer. William, baptised 29 July 1829 in Huntly and died 16 February 1858. James Alexander Milne, baptised 8 March 1831 in Huntly and died 24 March 1899. Alexander Milne, baptised 29Jul 1833 in Huntly but probably died young as so far no more trace of him.

                    James Alexander Milne had an illegitimate daughter by Martha Gordon of Clatt called Margaret Barbara Grant Milne born approx 1858. Margaret was brought up by her grandmother, father and step-mother Beatrix (Elizabeth) Watt who James married in 1864.

                    Margaret married William Gray in 1888 and had they had four sons and one daughter, Elizabeth Milne Gray who was my husband's maternal grandmother. The purse/wallet I previously mentioned came via this lady.

                    Alexander G D Milne was a bachelor who died at the Mills of Huntly where his older brother James Alexander Milne was the miller. His eldest brother William, also a bachelor, was a brush turner who died in Bogie Street, Huntly (his mother's house). I wonder if it was Alexander G D's father that provided the money for him to go to university as the other two followed quite different career paths?

                    I don't know anything about the Gordon connection (other than Martha Gordon of Clatt) so would be grateful for information about them.

                    Jacq

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                    • #11
                      Hello Jacq

                      Thank you for your very interesting reply.

                      Barbara Grant/Milne (1802-1867) was younger sister to my ancestor, Elspet Grant/Troup (1793-1869). Elspet married William Troup, a master gardener sometime in service to the Gordon family, 5th March 1825 at the Huntly Parish Kirk. Their daughter Elspet Troup (1829-1890) married James Gordon, a master cooper, again at Huntly Parish Kirk 2nd June 1853. Their youngest son Alexander Milne Gordon moved to London aged 18 and was my Grandfather's Grandfather.


                      In regard the Rev. Milne, I have been researching him a few years now, with the assistance of two other cousins on the same Gordon line, one based in Scotland, the other in the United States, the latter of whom recently visited and photographed his grave at Huntly.


                      I have Barbara first married to Alexander Milne (born 1799 son of George Milne and Margaret Brodie). He was a journeyman Dyer in the employment of James Alexander, Master Dyer, in Huntly on Bogie Street. I believe Alexander was possibly related somehow through his mother to the Duchess Gordon, who was a Brodie, though that is speculation. Certainly he was close to his employer who was 15 years his senior, he had him act as godfather and named his second son with Barbara for him, James Alexander Milne, in 1831, (who of course is same man who later owned Huntly Mill) and he also stood as godfather again for their third son Alexander Milne in 1833.


                      Unfortunately the burial records for Huntly do not exist but I believe Alexander Milne died in 1835 as that year James Alexander placed an urgent add for a fully trained Journeyman Dyer, to fill a vacancy immediately, and even offered to pay stamp duty on any reply.. suggestive of a suddenness and urgency, perhaps consistent with Alexander's untimely death. Certainly he already had two apprentices at that time Alexander Gordon Davidson who he had taken on at age 14 in 1830, and his younger brother Duncan Davidson taken on also at 14 in 1834, but both were still too young too complete their respective apprenticeships and fulfill the now vacant role of a journeyman.


                      Barbara appears to have started a relationship with the elder of the apprentices, Alexander Gordon Davidson, sometime after this, falling pregnant with the future Rev. Milne late in 1839 when she was 37 and he 23. Obviously this may well have bought unwelcome attention for a number of reasons, and the child was baptised not at the local church but at the Duchesses private Episcopalian Chapel which she had set up within the grounds of Huntly Lodge on May 10 1840, with just the father noted on the register, and the paternal grandparents as witnesses. It was the only baptism on page not to specify 'by his wife', though the obvious illegitimacy was not overtly stated. The surname was also apparently deliberately omitted possibly to avoid detection of this birth by outsiders.


                      Apart from this initial act Alexander Gordon Davidson appears to have been an entirely absent father. Six weeks after the birth he left Huntly altogether, his employment with James Alexander having evidently ended suddenly and abruptly. Speculation of course, but possible his employer James Alexander was unhappy about the birth of the child and this relationship with the widow of his late colleague and terminated his employment on hearing of it.


                      Whatever the case by late July 1840 he had set himself up as a Dyer in his own right in Old Keith, but on the 1841 is in a household where everyone else is recorded as pauper, perhaps suggesting some kind of hostel, and by christmas 1843 he was offering both his dye works and premises up for rent to a new tenant suggesting business was not going well for him.


                      He appears to have had a sudden change of heart not long after, and 3 weeks later places another advert, the one thanking his customers for their loyal support since he began the business, and informing them he now intended to stay in the premises and continue. The same year he got married there to a Luisa Esson, which suggests his move away from Huntly did effectively end his prior relationship with Barbara Milne/Grant.


                      A further two years on in February 1846 he again appears in the local papers, on this occasion the business clearly having folded for good, being chased by several debtors and is described as 'Late of the Dye Works in Old Keith, current whereabouts unknown'.


                      The Dye works were later sold off by a James Simpson, a lawyer, in May 1851 which confirms he never seems to have returned there. He appears to completely disappear without trace after 1846, at least I cannot find a location for him anywhere. Possibly he changed his name to avoid his debtors? Or fled abroad?


                      All this would apparently point against him likely having provided any ongoing financial assistance to his son with Barbara, and indeed the evidence I can find does point towards the Rev Milne being an entirely self made man, at least he achieved his place at University through his own academic merit alone, winning Aberdeen Grammar School's annual 'bursary competition', which allowed him to attend Aberdeen University and have his fees paid for him from this in his 4 years spent there studying for his degree. This appears to further suggest that in 1860's, at least, neither he nor his family could afford to fund his education themselves.


                      As you doubtless already know he was then appointed the first rector or headmaster of the newly opened Gordon School in Drumblade not long afterward by the Duchess Gordon, and spent many years there, before returning again to studies later in life, gaining further degrees in Theology and Divinity and being ordained afterwards as a minister. His will suggests he was a man of some standing by time of his death, and of course, without a wife or children of his own, most of this estate passed over to his one surviving brother James Alexander Milne.


                      In regard James Alexander Milne's first partner, Martha Gordon, mother of Margaret Barbara Grant Milne/Gray, (1854-1938), I have not much information on her. Like yourself I know she was born in Clatt, and I'm fairly certain she was not related to my own ancestor James Gordon, who was originally of Rosehearty, and the repetition of the surname is chance. I believe my cousin in Scotland may have looked further into her origin so will fire off an email to him and ask if he can perhaps help further there.


                      Regards


                      Richard
                      Last edited by Richard; 05-06-12, 21:37.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Richard

                        I've been away on holiday and so was delighted on my return to receive all your information about Alexander Gordon Davidson Milne.

                        I didn't even know he existed until we were helping my father-in-law to move house last year. On cleaning out an old desk we came upon a leather purse/wallet with the lettering "Rev Mr Milne" and I undertook to try and find out who he was. Unfortunately my mother-in-law who might have known some more family tales (she was James Alexander Milne's great grand-daughter) died just over 10 years ago. Another item which has come down the Milne family line is "The Duke of Gordon's Spectacles". Again, unfortunately, we don't know the story behind them and how or who acquired them.

                        My sister-in-law, as a young girl, remembers being told by her grandmother (Elizabeth Milne Gray) about some family connection to Knockespock. I've established that it was owned by yet another "Gordon" family but they don't seem to have resided in the parish. Of course it may just have been that Martha Gordon was a native of Clatt and her father a tenant of Knockespock Estate.

                        I hadn't managed to establish that Alexander Milne b.1799 was the son of George Milne and Elizabeth Brodie so thank you for that as well. We live in Newmachar, Aberdeenshire which isn't too far from Huntly so must pay a visit when time permits.

                        I found it quite surprising on reading Alexander G D Milne's will that he owned property - I wouldn't have thought a school master would have been all that well paid. Perhaps he was left the property in Bogie Street by his mother?

                        Since you mentioned the Brodie connection I've read a bit about the Duchess of Gordon who seems to have been quite a character.

                        Jacqui McDonald

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello Jacqui,

                          Hope you enjoyed your holiday away.

                          We do know the family were linked in various different ways to the colourful Duchess of Gordon.

                          The story that had come down our line to my cousin Nina in the United States, was our ancestor Elspet Troup/Gordon (1829-1890), the Rev.Milnes cousin, had been a 'Lady in Waiting to the Queen'. Of course at first it was assumed this was Queen Victoria, but we think this got a bit skewed over time from the somewhat humbler truth which was she was in service as an unmarried lady at Huntly Lodge to the Duchess, (she is recorded there on the 1851 census as her Laundry Maid!).

                          The Duchess of course was indeed herself a Lady in Waiting to the late William IV's consort Queen Adelaide, who had gifted her coronation robes to the Duchess, and these were apparently on prominent display at the Lodge as the Duchess's prize posession, at the same time Elspet was in service there, so this would seem to be the ultimate source of that tale. In addition her aunt Margaret Grant, and uncle William Grant (brother and sister to Barbara Grant/Milne) were also in service there at various times as was her younger cousin George. In fact though we have no absolute proof, it seems quite likely her own father, William Troup, a master gardener, was in service to the Gordons at the time she was born, as she was born at Glenfiddich which I believe was then a large private estate with a fishing and hunting lodge a little west of Huntly, belonging to the Gordons, and there seems little reason for her to have been born there otherwise as there was no local population settled there.

                          We have speculated amongst ourselves whether any actual deeper family relationship existed with her. The entire Brodie family seems to arrive in the village at the same sort of time as the Duchess's branch, and married into the Milne's and Jessimans who were later linked closely to ours, as shown above. The somewhat clandestine baptism of the Rev. Alexander Gordon Davidson Milne at the Duchess's Episcopal chapel within the Lodge, and her later appointment of him as the first rector for her newly opened Gordon School in Drumblade, maybe is suggestive of a closer relationship than would perhaps be typical for members of the aristocracy and those merely in service to them. I'm sure my cousins will be equally intrigued as I am to hear the late Duke's Spectacles also seem to have been gifted or found there way into the family, certainly adds further fuel to the fire!

                          The Grant family itself had, as far as we can tell, long been tennants of the Gordons, on the immediately surrounding lands to Huntly Castle from at least the early 1700's, with Barbara, Elspet, Margaret and William's, likely great grandfather, George Grant born circa 1690, recorded at Robieston as early as 1715. They were then Catholic like the Gordons, and the Jacobite lists suggest they supported the 2nd Duke in that uprising. The Gordon's, as you are probably already aware, did not officially support the second uprising in '45 as the then Duke Cosmo had been converted to the Protestant faith in the 1730's, but the general population, including our Grant's appear to have largely remained Catholic, and their chapel at Robieston was burned to the ground during this time, so it seems likely they were again supporting the Jacobites (Cosmo's brother Lewis had locally raised two battalions to support the rising so the Gordon family were nevertheless stilll involved).

                          The Grant's seem to have split after this in the 1760's/70's one lot remaining Catholic the other, from which our branch descends, following the Dukes into the Protestant faith and ending up, (by means of the Duchess or not we do not know), in service to them at least by the opening of the 19th century.


                          If you'd like a copy of the photograph of the late Rev. Milnes grave at Huntly and the other bits and pieces we have put together please feel free to send me a Private Message here and I will foward my email adress to you.

                          Regards

                          Richard
                          Last edited by Richard; 15-06-12, 13:30.

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