Where's Jetty??

[naomiatt]

In the 1891 census under a listing for my gguncle, there is a name of Jetty CHERNOSKY,aged 24,cap maker, born in Poland(c.1867), relationship sister and I believe it says she was single.
The address was 31 Church Street, Bethnal Green North.
My uncle’s name was listed as Marks TISHMAN(1862-1943) born Russia, his wife was listed as Fanny born Poland however, she was actually known as Betsy/Biela/Elizabeth(1863-1939)and her maiden name was SUCHERT. In the 1901 census it states they were both born in Russia and living at 1 Boundary Passage, Shoreditch with their surname listed as TESSMAN. There is no mention of Jetty. I’m trying to find out what happened to her….

[kylejustin]

there's this:

KUTCHINSKI, Jakub- Head, Married. 33, b.1868, Russia. Russian Subj. Baker (Journeyman)
KUTCHINSKI, Jety- Wife, Married. 33, b.1868, Russia. Russian Subj.
KUTCHINSKI, David- Son. 11, b.1890, St George's, London
KUTCHINSKI, Mary- daughter.7, b.1894, St George's, London
KUTCHINSKI, Simon- Son. 7, b.1894, St George's, London
KUTCHINSKI, Esther- Daughter. 6, b.1895, St George's, London
KUTCHINSKI, Rachel- daughter. 3, b.1898, St George's, London

136 cable st, st george in the east.
rg 13, piece 309, folio 51, page 5

[kylejustin]

i found the same family in 1911, wife is now calling herself yelta, b.1866, poland, married 21 years. they are in st george in the east.

[kylejustin]

in 1891, she is zelly chefnosky, but the image says yetty or yelty chessnosky. how is she sister though, if her brother? is tishman and his wife was a suchert?

[naomiatt]

in 1891, she is zelly chefnosky, but the image says yetty or yelty chessnosky. how is she sister though, if her brother? is tishman and his wife was a suchert?

Hi - thanks for all of that info. That's what I'm confused about...I thought that if she said 'sister' that meant she was a sibling of the head of the household....also confusing as in 1891 it says she was from Poland, same for Fanny..Marks said from Russia..
Suchert and Chernosky don't really sound the same...Fanny/Elizabeth's mothers maiden name was Schanowitz...and again, that doesn't sound like Chernosky either...so maybe, it was a mistake and she was married...or was about to be??...if she had been married for 21 years in 1911..that takes it back to around 1890..Cable St is the right area..does it give an address in 1911?

I've tried to find some b. m and d's for them - so far;-
Births Jun 1898
KUTCHINSKY Rachel Leah St. Geo. East
1c 346

Marriages Sep 1928
Kutchinsky Rachel Simons Stepney
1c 776A
Kutchinsky Rachel Symons Stepney
1c 776A
Simons Paul Kutchinsky Stepney
1c 776A
Symons Paul Kutchinsky Stepney
1c 776A

Births Dec 1896
Kutchinsky Esther St. Geo. East
1c 356

Marriages Jun 1919
Kutchinsky Esther Zolousky Bethnal G.
1c 429
Zolousky Goodman Kutchinsky Bethnal G.
1c 429

As yet, can't seem to find David, Simon and Mary births nor deaths for Jetty/Yetty/Zelly and Jacob.
In 1911, do Simon and Mary have different names...just wondering if Mary was called Miriam??

[arlene]

Hi,
I've been working on the Kutchinsky family also, but my research is all in the United States, Poland, Russia etc. Has anyone a link that might connect me with your info? My earliest family menber is
Abraham Kucinski born in 1807 Wies Kocien, Konskie, Poland..

[naomiatt]

Hi,
I've been working on the Kutchinsky family also, but my research is all in the United States, Poland, Russia etc. Has anyone a link that might connect me with your info? My earliest family menber is
Abraham Kucinski born in 1807 Wies Kocien, Konskie, Poland..

Hello Arlene - I've sent you a pm. I'm in contact with others who have the Kutchinsky name.

[kylejustin]

ok, so 1911 is interesting.

jacob kutchinsky- (crossed out) head, age 50, married. a baker, in america, business there. born poland. a naturalised russian 1899.
married 21 years, 5 kids, 1 dead.
yelta was naturalised at the same time.
kids: david 19, mary 17, shire (simon?) 15, ester 13, and rachel 7. (she's crossed out?) she must have died by then. all born whitechapel, naturalised by birth.

[naomiatt]

That's great info - thanks. He must have been a good baker if he was on business in America. I'll see if I can fnd his naturalisation info.
I wonder if they landed up moving to the U.S...

[Christine in Herts]

I thought that if she said 'sister' that meant she was a sibling of the head of the household

Relationships are supposed to be to the head of the household, but the enumerator might have got confused if the relationships weren't clearly explained.

I have a Rhoda WESTON recorded as Rhoda BENNETT, mother, where the head was George BENNETT. There's a slim chance I'm wrong, but I reckon that she was probably called, and referred to, as Mother, without further clarification.

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi Christine - yes...know what you mean. Problem I have with Jetty is that Mark's wife was nee Suchert...doesn't quite go with Chernosky...
Then I wondered if it became Chernos/v/w etc..without the ski/sky....as you can see, kylejustin has found some great info for Kutchinsky..
but now I'm wondering if this is her with Jacob...not an easy one!

[naomiatt]

Can anyone by any chance see a marriage for Jetty to Jacob Kutchinsky...in theory around 1890-1892..

[kylejustin]

i could see no jetty's marrying that would fit. maybe you need to see if a kids bc has the mothers maiden name. dont want to be feeling around and hit the wrong family....

[naomiatt]

Hi kylejustin - yes, know what you're saying. Can you see a marriage for a Jacob Kutchinsky?..even not to a Jetty.....

[kylejustin]

have you looked on ancestry marriages/baptisms? they were londoners, maybe you find some things?

[kylejustin]

i can only see kutchin* marriages after 1918. maybe they married in poland or russia?

[naomiatt]

Hi - yes, that's what I'm wondering. I can't find a marriage and I still haven't found David, Simon and Mary (twins I think) births nor deaths for Jetty/Yetty/Zelly and Jacob...

[lfkichen]

I am Jacob and Yetta Kutchinsky's great grandson. When Jacob filed his first papers in the U.S. he listed himself as a.k.a. John Jacob Kitchen. At other times, he went by the name of J.J. Kichen. Strangely, he took out "first papers" twice both in St. Louis. On the first document, he listed his birth place as Vienna, Austria on the second he listed his birth place as Piotrka, Poland. Yetta's death certificate lists her father as Hyman Cohen.

Yes, the 1911 census is unusual but can be explained. Jacob, left his family behind in London when he set off to the U.S. My grandfather, David became the head of the household, you will note that David signed the census report. David changed his name to Kichen, note this spelling. More about that census, Shire became Sidney K. Jacobs and remained in the UK. Ester became Estelle Kitchen when she was naturalized in the U.S. Mary also emigrated to the U.S. and spelled her last name as Kitchen.

There is much more. I am limited by time this evening. My ultimate goal is to discover who were Jacob's father and grandfather. If someone is sincerely interested in working with me on the Kutchinsky saga please send me a personal message.

Lee F. Kichen
Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Army Retired

[clematised]

Hello Lee,

It looks as though Naomi's post box is full at the moment as I tried to send her a PM, but I have sent a message to Moderator Elaine...Spain telling her you want to notify Naomi so I am sure they will sort it out for you tomorrow

Edna

[naomiatt]

Hi, back on board again. Not sure why my mailbox shows as being full but I'll delete now. Thanks for contacting me Edna/Elaine. Lee, sent you a pm.