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  • Parish Chests

    Are marriage licences, marriage bonds and allegations, pre 1837 available from a parish chest ?
    Thanks Tim

  • #2
    I'm never very sure what is meant by a Parish Chest! Very few churches these days would make use of a parish chest as there are now strict laws governing the storage of important historical documents, such as parish registers.

    They might be in a safe at the Vicarage (unlikely really) or more likely, stored in the County Archives Office.

    Perhaps if you tell us which church, we can tell you where these documents might be.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      You'll normally find marriage licences, bonds and allegations at the local Record Office.

      Comment


      • #4
        "The parish chest" is the general description found in some archives for sundry parish documents. The name doesn't really matter - whatever survives of the church documents is usually in the safe-keeping of the County Archives. The amount of documents can vary greatly from next to nothing up to wonderful and detailed records.

        There is also a company called The Parish Chest which sells data on the internet. Check what they have here - it may not be what you want! http://www.parishchest.com/

        Anne

        Comment


        • #5
          Some churches still do retain their parish chest with some documents. I came across one in Northamptonshire with an original register dating back to 1820. Within an hour I had photographed all the relevant pages which contained my ancestors with a few gems not found at the CRO, so it may be worth looking.

          Janet

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
            I'm never very sure what is meant by a Parish Chest! Very few churches these days would make use of a parish chest as there are now strict laws governing the storage of important historical documents, such as parish registers.

            They might be in a safe at the Vicarage (unlikely really) or more likely, stored in the County Archives Office.

            Perhaps if you tell us which church, we can tell you where these documents might be.

            OC
            They better not be in a safe in the vicarage as that would be illegal, registers if not at the Diocesan Archive must be stored in the church or other place of public worship


            Parochial Registers and Records Measure 1978

            "11-(7) Subject to subsection (8) below, directions under sub*section (6) above shall require the register books and records to which the directions apply to be kept in the appropriate parish church or other place of public worship and shall include directions with respect to the type of container in which those books and records are to be kept."

            The requirements are easily attained -

            “1. Every register book or record to which this Schedule applies shall be kept in a rust-proofed, vented steel cupboard, the door of which is fitted with a multi-lever lock, and the cupboard shall be kept in the appropriate parish church or other place of public worship.
            2. The place in the church or other place of public worship in which the cupboard is kept shall be the place where there is least risk of damage to any such book or record in the event of a flood or an outbreak of fire.
            3. The temperature and relative humidity in such cupboard shall be checked at least once a week by means of a maximum-minimum thermometer and a hygrometer, each of which shall be kept in the cupboard.

            The hygrometer shall be one conforming to British Standard Specification Number 3292 or any new British Standard which supersedes it.
            4. The difference between the maximum and the minimum temperatures in the cupboard during any week shall not be allowed to exceed 10 degrees Celsius.
            5. The relative humidity in the cupboard shall not be allowed to fall below 50 per cent. nor to rise above 65 per cent.
            6. Subject to paragraph 3 above, nothing, except books or other documents, shall be kept in the cupboard in which any register book or record to which this Schedule applies is for the time being kept.
            7. Without prejudice to the preceding provisions, the person or persons having the custody of any such book or record shall take all such steps as are reasonably practicable to ensure that the book or record is protected against theft, loss and damage.

            Cheers
            Guy
            Guy passed away October 2022

            Comment


            • #7
              That's interesting, Guy - does it only apply to C of E registers, or also to Non-conformist ones?

              Comment


              • #8
                Guy, that is interesting as in a tiny village in Lincolnshire it is one of the Church Wardens who holds the registers in her own house. Heaven help us if the house burnt down! She has registers from 1812ish. She didn't let me see them but gave me photocopies for which I gave a donation.
                Elizabeth
                Research Interests:
                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guy

                  Yes, I know that is what the LAW says, but the fact is that some Vicars do not obey the law, either from ignorance or from awkwardness!

                  I know of at least one church which keeps the current parish register in a safe in the Vicarage because that is the only place in which it could hope to be free from damp, vermin and interferers. The same safe houses some material which could also be called Parish Chest material, old meeting books etc.

                  This is a law which relies on the integrity of the keeper of the material - as far as I know, the police do not launch midnight raids on churches, vicarages and churchwarden's houses to see if the law is being upheld!

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The current parish registers are subject to slightly different rules.

                    More often than not police are not involved with enforcing the law but at times the civil courts are involved.
                    There are penalties in place to enforce the rules which include removing the registers from the parish, but yes as with many things in life trust does into the equation.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As the storage rules are quite strict and taxing, it does explain why many churches happily hand over their old registers to the CRO, who are geared up for proper storage.

                      Mary - yes, the law applies to all church registers, not just C of E, and also to "important archives" for want of a better description.

                      Don't we have a member on here whose ancestor was a Vicar and took the register with him when he moved to a new church?!

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks

                        Thanks to you all for answering my query about parish chests What I was really saying was if I was living in pre 1837 and wanted to located a marriage bond or allegation where would I look... the parish chest for instance ? or where else.

                        Thanks Tony

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tony

                          I'm still not sure I understand what you are asking, but pre 1837 documents will usually be in the County Records Office.

                          However, if you can give us a specific area we can hunt down the exact location for you.

                          I think AT THE TIME, the Bonds and Allegations would be kept by the Bishop rather than by the church, unless it was an important church, but I'm not positive about that.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                            That's interesting, Guy - does it only apply to C of E registers, or also to Non-conformist ones?
                            Only to the C of E.

                            In Scotland, Ireland etc. it applies to their "Authorised Religion".
                            Cheers
                            Guy
                            Guy passed away October 2022

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Tony

                              I'm still not sure I understand what you are asking, but pre 1837 documents will usually be in the County Records Office.

                              However, if you can give us a specific area we can hunt down the exact location for you.

                              I think AT THE TIME, the Bonds and Allegations would be kept by the Bishop rather than by the church, unless it was an important church, but I'm not positive about that.

                              OC
                              Not strictly accurate but in practice, yes.

                              All completed registers are kept by the parish church or may be kept at the Diocesan Archive.

                              The Diocesan Archive may be housed in a County Record Office (CRO) or may be separate from the CRO. One should also be aware that the local CRO may not be the CRO that hosts the Diocesan Archive as that may be in a different county.
                              This is due to the fact that counties and diocese often cover different areas of country.

                              Bonds, Allegations and Licences were taken by the groom to the church where he intended to marry. They were given to the vicar to prove the formalities had been completed.
                              It was then up to the vicar to store the documents in the Parish Chest.

                              In modern times such documents are normally housed in the Diocesan Archive.
                              Cheers
                              Guy
                              Guy passed away October 2022

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Let us just suppose that this is say 1824....... and I as a person am alive and living in 1824........ Let us suppose that I wish to locate a marriage allegation and bond in 1824........ where, in 1824, would I go to find these documents ??????
                                Tony

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  You would go first to the Vicar of the church where the couple were married and ask him. He would then ask you why you wanted to know. Unless you were of some standing in the community I doubt you would get past him if it was just for sheer nosiness - the church always felt that church matters were, not exactly private, but no one's business except the person concerned.

                                  If you had some concern about the validity of the marriage then he would either pass you upwards, or he would pursue the matter himself. I just don't see you, as an ordinary citizen, being allowed to poke around amongst church papers.

                                  Guy's response above suggests that the bonds and allegations would indeed be kept in the church where the marriage was performed, literally "in the Parish Chest".

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks, Tony

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      For informatio only
                                      The parish chest
                                      Thomas Cromwell, The Earl of Essex and adviser to Henry the 8th first introduced parish chests. In 1538. From that date, every parish church was required to acquire a sure coffer (i.e. parish chest) within which their records could be securely stored.

                                      But it is important to know that parish chests had existed in various forms long before the Tudor period. Thomas Cromwell decided in 1538 that formal records should be kept in parish registers. There were three main reasons for the keeping of these records.
                                      To provide evidence for inheritance purposes
                                      To prevent forbidden marriages e.g. incestuous marriages.
                                      To calculate the population for tax purposes.
                                      The registers were to be completed by the Church on a weekly basis but the routine wasn't always popular and those clergymen, who did have a higher degree of literacy, often wrote in a hand more artistic then legible.
                                      Parish chests were usually sturdy storage containers and papers and documents stored inside, although maybe untidy, were preserved reasonably well.
                                      The chest maintained by the parish was in ancient times a hollow trunk, fastened with three keys, the latter to be kept severally by the bishop, the priest, and a religious layman. By the parishioners in every parish were directed by law to provide a strong chest with a hole in the upper part thereof, and having three keys, for holding the alms for the poor. The chest was also a place in which the parish registers and other parish documents were kept. A single chest could have been used for both purposes (alms and documents) or two or more chests were kept by the parish.
                                      Chests were plain or ornate, according to the desire of the person who purchased or donated it. It was sometimes kept in the home of the minister, but more often kept in the parish church. A chest from Wimbourne, Dorset, made from the trunk of a tree, is 6 feet long on the outside, but the cavity is only 22 inches by 9 inches by 6 inches. One of the longest, 10 feet long, is found at Curdworth in Warwick. Most chests are of box type. About 1680 they were from walnut, the soft wood lending itself to elaborate carving. Mahogany became more fashionable starting in the 1750's. Later, after 1812 when the law required safe custody of the registers the chest was often an iron box.
                                      Although the chest was a requirement, what was kept therein and the condition of the box itself varied from parish to parish. The papers and documents stored inside, although maybe untidy, were preserved reasonably well. Their survival, however, depended not only upon the local mouse population, but also the housekeeping enthusiasm of various people keen to clear away “old rubbish.”
                                      Early parish registers were written on loose sheets of paper and towards the end of 16th century it was ordered that these be copied into parchment books. A mammoth task which resulted in some parish records being abbreviated or even missed out altogether. Also, many of the loose sheets couldn't be found.
                                      17th CENTURY RECORDS – in 1645, while the Civil War still raged, parishes and chapelry were given the job of providing a vellum register to record the dates of baptisms, with a new requirement that the date of birth and the parents’ names be included. Burial records were also required to give the date of death.
                                      Again, the burden to complete the registers wasn't always done efficiency or effectively and on 29 September 1653 an Act of Parliament gave the custody of registers to registrars elected by ratepayers of the parish. Sometimes these records were written in the old parish register, sometimes in new volumes, but standards of record keeping remained low.
                                      Towards the end of the 17th century Parliament introduced duties on the recording of family events to raise money for the war in France.
                                      Thanks for your Help Tony

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