Ozzy help please

[RNM]

The great Trove newspaper site has naturally enough raised as many new questions as answers - still guess that's what it's all about ................

Could someone with world wide Ancestry try checking Australian birth dates for the children of

John Spence Lees b1858 d1945 and Mary Anne Kemp b1862 d1935 married 1885

They are George Frederick Lees died in Liverpool England 20th Nov 1936
Luke Lees died 22nd Feb 1926 Kew Vic.
Alice Lees ??? - married ???Gibbs
Ada Helen Victoria Lees b1895 d1919
Thomas Hartley Lees b1900 d 1926 Box Hill Vic. married ???
Mary Lees deceased by 1935
Kemp Lees deceased by 1935

I know there's lots of em and just to confuse me (it doesn't take much these days ;) ) they're all named after their Uncles and Aunts in England !!

Any help very gratefully received

Roger

[Mary from Italy]

The world Ancestry doesn't have Australian BMDs (although I believe it will sooner or later).

Do you know which State they were born in? Each State keeps separate records.

You'll find lots of info about Aus research here:

http://ftfmagazine.lewcock.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=238:research-guide-australia&catid=49:june-2009

http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/Australia

[Mary from Italy]

Sorry, just noticed that a couple of them died in Victoria.

You'll find Vic BMDs here:

http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/servlet/IdxSearch?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

[RNM]

Thanks Mary
They were all in Melbourne, Victoria
I've not got an occupation for any of them except George Frederick Lees who was an engineer.
The Father John Spence Lees was my GGrandfathers eldest brother and I know he was in business with his cousin as "Lees Bros" and I know they went bust - the rather vague family story is that it was Johns fault but I don't know the details. John was then sent to Australia by his Father and I have an account book of "loans" that continued for a long time and included £5 for a horse and £3 to have his wife sent out to join him !
What I've always thought remarkable is that he came back to marry and then went back again - in those days a reasonably hazardous and lengthy journey not to mention expensive .......... although the horse cost more than the travel, I just hope it was a good one !
Having always had him written off as something of a black sheep its touching that he named all his children after his brothers and sisters.

I'd love to know more about them all

I'll check out the links

Thanks again Roger

PS I have Alice Gibbs (nee Lees) address as of 1945 and having "google earthed" it it shows as the only un modernised house on the road - tempting that there may be an elderly Gibbs child still in residence .............. I can't find a way of checking a current name with the address anyone any ideas ???

[Mary from Italy]

Just looking at the electoral rolls. Bear in mind that they don't give ages or relationships.

In 1909, George Frederick, engineer, Luke, labourer and Mary Ann Lees, home duties, were living at 200 Abbotsford St., Melbourne.
In 1914, John Spence, grocer, Mary Ann, home duties, Luke, clerk and Agnes Alice Lees, children's nurse were at that address.
In 1919, John Spence, grocer, Mary Ann, home duties, Luke, clerk and Agnes Alice Lees, children's nurse, were at Whitehorse Rd., Balwyn, Canterbury, Vic.
In 1924, John Spence, grocer, Mary Annie, home duties and Luke Lees, clerk, were at that address.

Can't find John Spence Lees in 1909, and can't see George Frederick anywhere in Australia after 1909.

[Mary from Italy]

PS I have Alice Gibbs (nee Lees) address as of 1945 and having "google earthed" it it shows as the only un modernised house on the road - tempting that there may be an elderly Gibbs child still in residence .............. I can't find a way of checking a current name with the address anyone any ideas ???

Phone book:

http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/index.jsp

[RNM]

Mary tried whitepages but it doesn't do an address search - I suppose I could try any and all Gibbs could be an expensive evening on the phone !!

[Mary from Italy]

In 1919 Ada Helen Victoria Lees, nurse, was at Woorinyan, Florence Ave., Kew, Vic. No-one else with the surname Lees at that addresss.

Looks like you have the wrong date of death for Thomas Hartley Lees?
In 1936 and 1937 John Spence, retired, Thomas Hartley, engineer, and Mary Eileen Lees, home duties, are living at 19 Brenbeal St., Balwyn, Vic.

[RNM]

Mary you hero !!

Ok John Spence was a "grocer" here with his cousin supplied ships and hotels that sort of thing before he went bust.

interesting Luke was down as a labourer ??? then a clerk ?? bit of a shift ! he died young so maybe he wasn't strong enough to continue ???

As far as I know John Spence Lees never came back after he married so he should be there but perhaps George frederick left for England by 1909 ?? he'd have been about thirty probably.

Roger

[RNM]

Mary - date of death for thomas from ancestry freepages

where are you getting all this you a magician !!!

Roger

[RNM]

Mary according to the death announcement for Mary Anne Lees - 1935 luke, Ada, Mary and Kemp were already dead.

in the same newspaper piece (Agnes) Alice Gibbs nee Lees had 2 sons Freeland and Luke Gibbs
by 1945 when John Spence Lees died someone - presumably Thomas Hartley had 2 children Mary and John Lees at that stage 4 grandchildren in all. - So you're right the Ancestry information is wrong (typo?) because only Thomas and George were alive to have had children and George was in England by 1935.

[Mary from Italy]

Was the address you had for Alice 52 Empress Road by any chance?

[Mary from Italy]

where are you getting all this you a magician !!!

The Australian electoral rolls are on Ancestry; you can search with a UK subscription, but you need the world or Aus sub to view the full details:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/Default.aspx?htx=List&dbid=1207&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0

[Mary from Italy]

in the same newspaper piece (Agnes) Alice Gibbs nee Lees had 2 sons Freeland and Luke Gibbs

OK, she's living with Alfred Freeland Gibbs, clerk, at 52 Empress Road, Canterbury, Vic in 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1943, 1949 and 1954.

In 1931 there's also a Ruth Gibbs, nurse, at that address.
In 1943 John Spence Lees is also living there.

When I searched the Vic BMD site for a marriage for Agnes Alice Lees to a Gibbs between 1919 and 1926 there was one hit, but when I added the name Alfred for the husband there were no hits. You may need to buy a few credits for that site to sort them all out.

[Mary from Italy]

Bear in mind that it isn't like the censuses where you can see who else is living at the same address; you can only search the electoral rolls by surname, so you can only see the other people of the same surname who were living at a particular address.

[RNM]

yes Empress road - along with the other addresses are the ones I have.
You really are a Wizard you know !!!

Alfred Freeland eh - fancy calling your 1st born Freeland !! ****** of a name

the bit I'm confused about is Mary - definitely dead by 1935 but according to the electoral roll alive in 1936/37 !!
and the oddly named Kemp Lees again dead by 1935 but no record of him anywhere :(

Think I might try phoning a few Gibbs on the off chance

Thanks for all this you're a marvel

Roger : )

[Mary from Italy]

If you put A Gibbs, Canterbury, Victoria in the White Pages site, only one name comes up. The same person was living at the same address when Alice and her husband were living at Empress Road. I would guess the person in Jurang Street might be a brother or nephew of Alfred's.

[Mary from Italy]

the bit I'm confused about is Mary - definitely dead by 1935 but according to the electoral roll alive in 1936/37 !!

Not the same Mary, probably. I can't see a Mary Eileen Lees on the electoral rolls before 1936. Maybe she was Thomas Hartley's wife? Have you tried looking for a marriage for him?

and the oddly named Kemp Lees again dead by 1935 but no record of him anywhere :(

Named after his mother, presumably. I can't see him anywhere in Australia, so perhaps he died before reaching the age of 21.

[Mary from Italy]

Just had a quick look for burials.

You'll find Thomas Hartley at Springvale; not searched for the others yet.

http://www.deceasedsearch.com/

[Mary from Italy]

Had you found the reference in the Gazette to the dissolution of the Lees Brothers partnership?

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/25796/pages/1579