Barnes, brown, woollard, clements

[Guest]

John Barnes, a carpenter/builder, married Ann Brown in UK early 1800's. I cannot trace the marriage.
Two sons, Henry and Nehemiah, turn up in Victoria, Australia, in 1850's or 1860's. No proof on shipping lists.
The family may have left UK to chase the gold rush in the 1800's. No proof of this.
I presume there would be other siblings.
Henry and Nehemiah married into the Woollard and Clements familes. On those certificates they stated their father was a carpenter/builder in London. I need the proof.
Any suggestions out there, please.
Cheers

[kylejustin]

i assume the parents information is from their marriage and death certificates? can you say when and where the brothers were born? and the dates of marriage?

[Adrian Barnes]

Hi KJ. Henry was married 13/8/1872 in Melbourne, Victoria, AUS. Nehemiah was married 29/4/1864 in Hotham, Victoria, AUS. Both marriage certs state that they were born in London. No dates given. No place names given. From the marriage certs I have calculated that Henry was born about 1838, Nehemiah was born about 1840. Death certs give no fresh information. I have been searching various leads for about 5 years and each lead has proved a dud. Thank you for your reply. cheers, AB.

[naomiatt]

Hi - I know it's not London - have you ruled this one out?
Births Mar 1840
Barnes Nehemiah Wincanton 10 557
Also, do you know if they came over voluntarily? If not, have you looked at the Old Bailey on line site? http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/

There is also http://trove.nla.gov.au/

[Val and George]

Hello Adrian, welcome to FTF

There seem to be two families of John Barnes and wife Ann in the early 1800's one was a carpenter and the other a stocking weaver

22/2/1807 a John Barnes married a Mary Ann Brown at Cripplegate - unfortunately the parish records don't give his occupation

I did find a couple of baptism entries on ancestry - Hepzibah Barnes was baptised 26/11/1826 her parents were John and Ann and John was a carpenter - but I am unable to read her date of birth
On the same day her sister Mary Ann Barnes was baptised and I think her birthdate is 5/4/1817 - with a query on the 17?

I was unable to find them on the 1841 census, or the 1851..........and there seems to be no record of Nehemiah's birth - which is a pity as it is such an unusual name. So maybe Naomi has struck gold with the one born in Wincanton.
Do you have any idea of their ages when they travelled to Oz? that might help

[Adrian Barnes]

Hi folks. From the certificates I have calculated that the boys were 14/15 yrs of age when came to Australia. Whether or not they were alone or with adults I cannot find.
I cannot prove that they are brothers - just that they both have parents of the same name and occupation and that they arrived in Victoria Australia the same time.
I am not convinced that they did come from London - I can only go on what is on their respective marriage and death certificates.
The Wincanton Nehemiah does not have John or Ann as parents. I am still trying to prove or disprove the Hephzibah link - there is no Nehemiah in that family.
I have tried assisted passages, unassisted passages, convicts, all sorts. Many names could be the ones I want but there are insufficient details to prove who is who, that is why I am hoping for some clever person to come up with something I haven't thought of.
I have just found the Trove link so am ploughing through that lot. I don't think I have tried the Oldbailey link so will look at that next.
Is there a list somewhere of passengers leaving UK ports in the 1800's???
The shipping lists into Australia have some full names, some initials and some family names only. Quite frustrating and not helpful.
Many thanks for all the help and advice.

[naomiatt]

Hi - there is some info on the National Archives site re; passengers -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=292&j=1#16

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passengers.htm

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...nger-lists.htm and this site is useful

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/onlinelists.html

"The Wincanton Nehemiah does not have John or Ann as parents"- what names do they have?

[Adrian Barnes]

Hi. Thanks for the new lists. When I applied for the birth certificate for the Nehemiah, Wincanton, The Office replied that the parents names were not Ann & John so no certificate was supplied. Cheers,AB

[naomiatt]

Hi - I think you might have to order that cert to see what it shows...if he's not a sibling, then could well be a cousin...or it might show Jonathan and Hannah for example..or John as a middle name...it could be a red herring...but it's a big coincidence.

[Adrian Barnes]

OK! It is a long shot, but I can see your reasoning. I don't know if the Certificate Office will provide me with a certificate if I cannot prove I am related. They seemed reluctant last time I ordered it.
Can anyone find that Wincanton family on th 1841 or 1851 census, please??
Cheers AB.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Adrian

Less is more when ordering certificates.

They legally cannot supply you with a certificate which does not match the information you give. So if you say "mother must be Ann" and the cert says "Annie" they will not supply the certificate. So just order it by the reference number and don't give any qualifying details.

You don't have to be related to order the certificate - that would only apply for a very recent event and you would have to give an exact date.

OC

[Adrian Barnes]

OCH - sounds like an old car restorers name! I like the idea.
Right, thank you. I will have to find what ref number I used at that time and try again.
AB.