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  • Advice please on Irish Birth

    :(Apologies if you have seen this before but I dont feel happy about it .

    Have a Wedding cert for a
    Josephine Keegan married in Cork 2 Nov 1920 to a Walter Percy Eldridge

    Found her in Cork 1911 aged 16 with her parents
    Patrick Keegan Father aged 51 born Dublin
    Mary Mother aged 47 born Cork
    Mary Kate dau aged 20 born Cork.
    Josephine dau 16 born Cork.

    Somebody on here while in Ireland kindly looked for the Birth registration of Josephine but she could only find Mary Kate 9/4/1891 and a Bridget who was born 29/3/1895 with the right parents.

    The census does say had 4 children 2 died .

    Big question is would you agree the one for Bridget is Josephine maybe using a middle name???
    Would appreciate any views thanks

  • #2
    Could well be. I have several Bridget Josephines and vice versa in my tree..all very confusing.

    From my experience the Irish often go by their middle name which only seems to appear on their Baptism record....not at all helpful of course to those who are trying to trace them.

    Then you have to consider that the birth might not have been registerd at all!

    I've come to the conclusion that as long as the children have been Baptised then that's enough for the Irish.

    My Irish Gran, ( a Catholic) was born in 1894 in Dublin City and she had 17 siblings. Not all survived..... but only 3 were actually registered...... but I have traced another 11 through the baptism records.
    teresa

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    • #3
      Ive come across Irish people name changing, one time they are Patrick and the next time James. It has something to do with Saints. For years priests wouldn't christen children unless they had at least one saint's name, so the christening name dosent mean that the child was known by that name,there werent that many saints, so imagine calling the register at school!! Bridget is a saints name, so maybe Bridget was Josephine. There is no saint Josephine after all.

      mm

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      • #4
        thanks for your reply, its horrible when you have this nagging feeling something isnt quite right, I knew the Irish were hard to research but didnt realise they were that bad .
        So would you say she could have been Bridget Josephine then ??????????

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        • #5
          thanks for that Mary how complex are they ???

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          • #6
            I don't see why not, Val. My Irish grandmother confused me horribly when she married, gave birth and voted as Johanna Margaret, but emigrated, died and was buried as Judith.

            I've never found her birth/baptism either, as she lied about her age as well.

            Beverley



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            • #7
              Val,
              Can you wait until all of cork is on the IFHF website? Currently there is only cork north and she might be from the city or south? I would before making a decision as Ive found that alot of Irish rellies are often called by their middle names...

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              • #8
                Val

                Unfortunately when you see Cork that could mean Cork City or anywhere in the County of Cork which is one of Irelands largest counties! Keegan is a very popular Irish name though have not seen so many Eldridge which sounds more English than Irish. Was your man in the army? If so finding army papers might help you. No, there is very little of Cork County on the IFHF website and I am not sure that you can be sure it will all be going on there in any case.

                Your original question whether or not Josephine could be Bridget or vice versa is not really a question anybody can answer for you because unless you have come up against your Bridget/Josephine being called anything else then the problem remains the same. I do have a christened James in Cork City who vanishes and a John that mysteriously appears, but nobody can help me as to whether or not these two are one and the same person as I suspect! It does happen, though strangely enough all my Bridgets are proud of Bridget and remain Bridget and have even taken on the Irish Brid.

                There is no St Josephine but St Joseph is very well revered and most Irish families have Joseph in their name somewhere and Josephine is the feminine Joseph.

                I suspect that Irish people did often get rid of their "English" sounding names like James and William.

                Also remember, as as has been pointed out already, registering Irish births in Ireland or England was never high on the agenda for most Irish mothers, who would have had a long walk to the local register office with many children in tow, but they were always baptised, so a trip over to Dublin library to look at the baptisms may help you in the short run, though I realise a rather expensive possible solution.

                Not really answering your question sorry,

                Janet
                Last edited by Janet; 30-01-10, 11:46.

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                • #9
                  hi val, i think we are related, I'm paul wish I'd never started, about your names, my sister sheila was not baptized by the priest in that name, on the day he said to my mother - what kind of name is sheila, never heard the likes - and proceeded to baptize her under another name, best of luck

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                  • #10
                    thanks very much for your replies ,according to the census she was born in Cork City .
                    This lady was my Aunts Mother and died when she was only 6 and she never knew her , and nobody has a Photo of her , so am trying to piece her family together hoping to find a contact somewhere.
                    Yes she married a Soldier my Aunts Father ,who was based in Cork at the time they married in St Finbarrs, and Mary ,who I assumed is her Sister is a Witness .
                    We sent for the Army records and it just confirms her name as Josephine, and we have heard she was referred to as Jo.
                    What is the IFHF ?? thanks
                    Nice to meet you Paul wish I'd never started lol

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                    • #11
                      As I understand it St Finbarrs is the Protestant Church for Cork City, no big deal as many Irish girls, even catholics, married their protestant soldiers in the Irish Protestant churches. My own Catholic Irish Great Grandmother married her C of E English soldier in Fermoy Protestant Church. But first question do you know whether your Josephine/Brigid was Catholic or Protestant? Also be aware that with dual Catholic/Protestant families, that daughters were often baptised RC and sons often baptised C of E.

                      IFHF = Irish Family History Foundation, a pay per view site at:

                      Search Irish Family History records online: parish registers; church records; Roman Catholic and Protestant. Irish Family History Foundation online research service for the 32 county genealogy centres throughout Ireland. Largest online Irish Genealogy records database for 32 counties. Ireland ancestry, baptismal, birth, marriage, death, census, gravestone, Griffith Valuations, Tithes, ships passenger lists records. Family History research provided by centres.


                      The above is a very expensive site but more to the point not all the records are on here and never will be. Neither do you know whether it is yours or not until you have paid. Still, anything is worth a try and will be cheaper than a visit to Dublin. If not on there it does not mean they were not baptised/married/died it just means that the IFHF have not got the records. None of my Cork ancestors are on there at all, and I must have at least a couple of hundred! No surprise, as these records belong to the old Irish Heritage Centre sites, which never did have all the complete records

                      Janet
                      Last edited by Janet; 30-01-10, 16:39.

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                      • #12
                        hi and thanks Janet she was a RC according to the Census record. I heard the 1901 Irish Cenus will be available this year maybe that will give me more clues hope so.

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