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John simpson - ireland, australia and canada

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  • John simpson - ireland, australia and canada

    John Simpson (1837-1920), birthplace Ireland, married in Ontario, Canada on 13th July, 1858 at age 20 to Catherine Hanna or Hannah. She was born in Canada and her roots were from Ulster. John may have come from there as well, but no proof. His parents were Alexander and Elizabeth Simpson.

    He came to Australia, made his fortune in gold, and then went to Ontario, Canada, where he lived as a gentleman having been a well to do farmer.
    I’m not sure if John came to Australia voluntarily. Does anybody have John in their tree, or can find him in Australia? I’ve gone round in circles a bit!
    Last edited by naomiatt; 25-01-10, 06:21.

  • #2
    As he was born in 1837 and transportation (of convicts) declined from about 1845 and ceased in 1868, I would think he did come to Australia voluntarily. Have you tried the passenger indexes on-line - a bit difficult with a name like John Simpson, but the assisted migrant indexes give ages and the journals themselves give even greater detail.

    Gold was discovered in New South Wales in 1851, and if he married in Canada in 1858, at 21 years, he was pretty quick off the mark. Are you sure he did not "make is fortune" in the California or Alaskan gold rushes, much close to home ?
    Or did he get married before he came to Australia ? if he and Catherine had children while in Australia, it might be easier to track him down

    Di
    Diane
    Sydney Australia
    Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Di - I've found these two poss's so far - nothing in Tasmania, and still have to get through Qld and SA.....

      SIMPSON JOHN 17 OCT 1852 SIR EDWARD PARRY
      VPRS 14 Register of Assisted British Immigrants 1839-1871

      SIMPSON JOHN 20 NOV 1857 MONARCH OF THE SEA B 135 003
      Index to Unassisted Inward Passenger Lists to Victoria 1852-1923

      but I couldn't see how to get more info...when I clicked on one..there was no site available..

      I don't believe he married in Australia before arriving in Canada. As far as I know, he did come to Australia first.

      Does anybody reading this have any info about people leaving Ulster for Australia or Canada?....it's suspected that John came from Ulster..

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      • #4
        Hi Diane

        found a Simpson family, from Ireland in England 1841/51 is this your family??
        (It is a very common name but, the combination is correct)
        in 1841 they were in Newcastle

        James 1821 Ireland (ind)
        Eliza'th 1821 ireland
        John 1838 Ireland
        Eliza 1840 Northumberland

        1851 in Liverpool

        Alexander 1818 Ireland (Grocer)
        Eliza 1819 ireland
        John 1838 Ireland
        Eliza 1840 Northumberland

        1861 all vanished.

        mm

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        • #5
          Hi mm - thank you, that looks promising. I wonder if they all left for Australia and/or Canada. I've been plodding through the various Australian passenger lists but have not yet found these four names together.

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          • #6
            Hi

            I was thinking, he was very young when he married, so to have been in Australia before 1858 was quite a feat. He could have joined the navy or merchant shipping quite young,(Ive seen 13 yr olds in both the Royal Navy and merchant shipping on the 1861 census). and deserted ship, Ships crews deserted alot at this time in Australia, some ships were stranded. Tickets out to Australia were much in demand, an quite costly, during the gold rush.(or so I read) maybe looking at crews may help, not just passengers.

            mm

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            • #7
              Hi mm - that's a good thought - thanks.

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              • #8
                Sorry to be ignorant - what does (ind) mean by James, 1821, Ireland? Is it likely that James and Alexander are the same person?

                I've got the names of John and Catherine's children;-

                William Alexander Simpson b. 1859
                John Albert Simpson b. 9/1861
                Ellen Jane Simpson b. 8/8/1862 in Canada
                Rosanna Simpson b. 1866
                Thomas Freeman Simpson b. 1871
                Noble H. Simpson b. 1875
                Violet M. F. C. Simpson b. about 1881
                Adelaide b. ?

                Know that Ellen onward were born in Canada - now wondering about William Alexander and John Albert....did John come back to Australia and have children there??

                I'm helping a man in the US with this family - DT - and he asked me to specifically say -

                "All of these these folks have responded from the goodness of their hearts which is admirable, and your kind investment of time made it possible. Please thank them for me.
                I can't thank you enough. This is just such a help. I wish my contribution to your efforts might have been so productive.
                Any additional information that might be forthcoming will be wonderful. I can't get over this. Thank you again so much!"
                DT has helped me a lot with all the different surnames I'm looking for so it's been nice to reciprocate.
                Last edited by naomiatt; 26-01-10, 06:04.

                Comment


                • #9
                  naomi, do you have any idea which state he came too? there are quite few for gold rushes, maybe he did have some children here?

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                  • #10
                    Hi There

                    IND means that he had independant means (some money to live on, wasnt working at the time) .

                    It looks very likely that James is Alexander. Irish tend to swap their names around alot, Ive come across it a few times, has something to do with Saints names at birth. The rest of the family is the same, same name , same birth place and age. Its the Eliza from Newcastle in 1851 that makes it seem possible.


                    on the 1871 Canada census it says that William Alexander was born in Ontario, as all the other children

                    mm

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                      naomi, do you have any idea which state he came too? there are quite few for gold rushes, maybe he did have some children here?
                      Hi - unfortunately not...so I've been trawling all the different lists...have found a few John Simpson's, but some don't give enough info to know if it's the right person.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by marymog View Post
                        Hi There

                        IND means that he had independant means (some money to live on, wasnt working at the time) .

                        It looks very likely that James is Alexander. Irish tend to swap their names around alot, Ive come across it a few times, has something to do with Saints names at birth. The rest of the family is the same, same name , same birth place and age. Its the Eliza from Newcastle in 1851 that makes it seem possible.


                        on the 1871 Canada census it says that William Alexander was born in Ontario, as all the other children

                        mm
                        Thanks MM - yes, I've seen that with Saint names as well. Seems like all the children were therefore born in Canada.

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                        • #13
                          Just heard from DT that he has joined FTF so hopefully he'll be on here soon to provide more info.

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                          • #14
                            Hello, DT here, AKA "DT". Through Naomi's kindness in initiating this thread, you folks collectively have (I am certain) found my wife's GGG grandparents and an unknown daughter of theirs in England, identified an additional given name apparently used by her GGG grandfather, found the birthplaces of her GG aunts and uncles in Canada, provided links to both passenger and crews lists in transit to Australia, identified two migrants to Australia having the name of her GG Grandfather (John Simpson), provided many useful insights to things about which I was clueless, and confirmed family traditions in a most striking way. You easily saved me two years' research in two days!

                            Given the time and proper resources, I might have located information about this family in Ireland, but it never would have occurred to me to search for them in England, which was the first thing one of you did. Intuition can't be replaced. I can't thank all of you enough, especially your friend Naomi.

                            If I may ask, are the census records cited above for England and Canada freely available online.

                            You folks are great! Thank you again so much!

                            Glad to be here,
                            Doug

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                            • #15
                              Hi Doug - nice to see you on here. I might stand corrected, but I believe you can view these records on the 'A' site and the other one beginning with 'F'.
                              This site is also useful http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/02/0201_e.html and http://www.censusfinder.com/canada-census-records.htm
                              On the UK side this is also useful http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl as well as FreeReg - the link won't open at the moment.

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                              • #16
                                Hi Doug

                                glad to have been of help, if you want any other help, just ask.

                                mm

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                                • #17
                                  Hi Doug,

                                  Go some interesting info from Johns death certificate

                                  Born Armagh Ireland on April 9th 1837
                                  Date of Death Sept 27 1920
                                  Age at Death: 82 trs 5 m 18 days

                                  Residence in Canada 68 years(that means he came there in 1852)
                                  Name of father Alexander Simpson from Armagh Ireland
                                  Name of mother Eliza Sinclair from Ireland
                                  Son William was informant

                                  date of burial Sept 29th 1920 at Grand Valley Union Cemetary

                                  cause of death heart failure, had had Chronic Ulit???disease for 15 yrs, had a cerebrial hemorrhage.

                                  So he was from Northern Ireland (Ulster)

                                  Now Catherine

                                  Born 9th Feb 1837 Stanford, Welland City Ont.
                                  Date of Death 1st Aug 1911
                                  Age at Death: 74
                                  Place of death: Grand valley

                                  Name of father William Hanna from Ireland
                                  Name of mother Jane May from Ireland


                                  mm

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi,

                                    You folks are busy and helpful as usual. If I ever lack time to respond please don't consider it unappreciative. This info is awesome! Now Alexander and Elizabeth (Sinclair) Simpson and son John Simpson have been located in Ireland, England, and John at least, in Canada.

                                    John has still not been found definitively in Australia.

                                    mm, it would explain the Alexander Simpson household vanishing from England in the 1861 census if Alexander took his family to Canada in 1852, when John arrived Canada per his death certificate. John would have been about 15.

                                    There is still no evidence of Alexander or Elizabeth actually in Canada so I need to verify that.

                                    With the above, my assumption at this point is that John went to Australia some time between 1852 and 1858 when, with his fortune from gold, he married in Canada, and settled down on a farm to raise his children and Shetland ponies.

                                    At the risk of clutter, allow me to make several posts to address various issues you have raised.

                                    First, I have a question: What are "Assisted" migrants, as opposed to "Unassisted"?

                                    Thanks!

                                    Doug

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                                    • #19
                                      Father of John Simpson - James Simpson (1841 census, England) and/or Alexander Simpson (1851 census, England, and other sources):

                                      The evidence is that this Ulster family were strict and conservative Protestants who would have had no regard for saints.

                                      I agree that the James household (shown 1841) and the Alexander household (shown 1851) describe the same family.

                                      My conclusion is that the discrepant listing of James as the head of household in 1841 is either a clerical error by the census taker or by someone making a transcription, or else indicates an alternatiing use of given (first) and middle names.

                                      The name James will be borne in mind because it could be key to locating other information about this man in case he used this name at other times.

                                      Doug

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        As to what Australian state John migrated to, I don't know. The family tradition is emphatic that he went to "Australia" where he made a fortune in gold.

                                        The Australian gold rush began in New South Wales (NSW) in 1851, and 6 months later there was a discovery in Victoria. These two states are the best candidates for John's immigration point, and I suppose Sydney, NSW, and Melbourne, Victoria, to be most likely ports of entry.

                                        Gold strike sites:
                                        Ophir, near Bathurst, NSW, 1851
                                        Warrandyte, Victoria, 6 months later
                                        Ballarat, Victoria, ""
                                        Bendigo or Bendigo Creek, Victoria, ""
                                        Geelong, Victoria (looks like it could be a port) shown on a map, unclear if there was a strike there
                                        Mildura, Victoria, shown on a map, ""
                                        Turon, NSW, 1851
                                        The Meroo and Louisa Creek, NSW, 1851
                                        Abercrombie, NSW, 1851
                                        Araluen, NSW, 1851
                                        Sofala, NSW, 1851
                                        Eureka, Victoria, before 1854

                                        Those are all that I could identify tonight. Are there lists of miners or members of these communities in the time period?

                                        Thanks!

                                        Doug

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