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  • Where was he??

    I have posted this on another site, so apologies to anyone who has seen it on there. Just wondered if anyone on here has any diffenent ideas.

    I'm trying to find out information about my husbands great grandfather.

    I have his marriage certificate (19 Mar 1908, Darnall Parish Church, Sheffield, Yorkshire) and I have him on the 1911 census living in Sheffield, but apart from that I have nothing. He doesn't seem to exist before he got married. Can't even find a birth record that fits him.

    His name was John Ernest Whiting born c1880. His marriage certificate gives his father as John, an engineer, and his address as Fair Ground, Main Road, Darnall (Sheffield). They were travellers, which I think is part of the problem! On his son's birth certificate the father is given as John E Whiting and their address then was Maltby Road, Bramley (in 1910) He died 17/3/1946 in Sheffield aged 66.

    I did find them on the 1911 census eventually (transcribed as Whitney!) It gives
    John Ernest Whiting, 31, Roundabout Proprieter, born Deptford, London S. E.
    Mary Ellen Whiting, 28, born Darnall, Sheffield
    Eliza Ann Whiting, 2, born Stairfoot, Barnsley
    John Ernest Whiting, 8 months, born Bramley, Rotherham.
    They were living in a caravan on what looks like Bamforth Street, Penistone Road, Sheffield, which I know is the area they lived in.

    I did find the baptism of a John Whiting in the Deptford area, with a father John, but on the 1911 census he is still living with his parents in Deptford.

    I have searched on every census, using every combination that I can think of, but nothing. People on other websites have given me links to a travellers site run by Sheffield University and the Whiting family is mentioned on there, but still no mention of John Ernest.

    Anyone got any bright ideas please
    Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

  • #2
    Hi - have you tried this site http://romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/

    Comment


    • #3
      Have you discounted this one in 1901 Maggy? I know that his father John isn't an engineer but it wouldn't be the first time someone has exagerated their father job. Do you know that they were always gypsies? Could he have been the first in the family?

      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 25-01-10, 11:10.
      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

      Comment


      • #4
        On second thought this is probably the birth for the one I found and he is John Edward I'm afraid - March 1882 Greenwich (this was correct for Deptford)
        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

        Comment


        • #5
          you could try the sites from our wiki page..

          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for your interest everyone, that gives me something else to look at. Have had a quick look through them, but not much about the Whiting family, but will have a proper look through them later.

            The one you found Chrissie, I really do wish he was the right one, I have found him on every census and even found him and his families baptisms on Ancestry. Unfortunately on the 1911 census he was still single and with his parents, whereas my John Ernest Whiting was married and in Sheffield *sigh*

            I will keep looking, but it's so frustrating because he didn't seem to exist before he got married

            I have found a family of Whiting travellers (they were fairground people rather than gypsies) who came from the Norfolk area, but can't link them to mine. Plus my John Ernest did say in 1911 that he was born in Deptford!

            What makes matters worse in that my other half is not the slightest bit interested in his family
            Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Maggy,

              Have you tried this Forum for Sheffield - I have used this forum and the people are very helpful with a lot of local knowledge.

              Sheffield Records Online website provides index to 1841, 1851 (full) & 1861 (partial) Sheffield census, Trade Directories. Features personal database of members Sheffield interests.


              Sandra

              Comment


              • #8
                I have used that site Sandra thanks and found it very useful for other lines in my family.

                Did also find some information on my Whiting family, but couldn't find anything about John Ernest.
                Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just giving this one a small nudge hoping that someone else out there has a flash of inspiration!!

                  I'm still going around in circles with this one and getting more and more
                  Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Any luck with the romanygenes site??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi YM

                      have you considered the Whitings from Norfolk, the father was a sawyer, but two sons John and Samuel went into fairground work, and also an uncle worked the fairgrounds.

                      1881 Manchester, Lancashire
                      John Whiting c. 1847 Norfolk, Head traveller
                      Elizabeth Whiting c. 1854 Ollerton, Yorkshire, Wife


                      1881 Newbold and Dunston, Derbyshire
                      Samuel Whiting c. 1842 Dis, Norfolk, Head photographer
                      Hannah Whiting c. 1845 Worcestershire, Wife
                      Charles Whiting c. 1866 Chesterfield
                      Mary A. Whiting c. 1869 ditto
                      Harriet Whiting c. 1872 ditto
                      Samuel Whiting c. 1874 ditto
                      Robert Whiting c. 1877 ditto
                      James Whiting c. 1879 ditto
                      Jarvis Whiting ditto

                      1891 St Peter, Derbyshire
                      Samual Whiting c. 1842 Norwich, Norfolk, Head living boat proprieter(fairground)
                      Hannah Whiting c. 1844 Chesterfield Wife
                      John Whiting c. 1884 Chesterfield Son




                      1901 Selston, Nottinghamshire
                      Hannah Whiting c. 1846 Worcestershire, Head travelling showwoman
                      Gervase Whiting c. 1881 Chesterfield Son travelling showman
                      John Whiting c. 1884 Chesterfield Son travelling showman

                      Samuel Whiting c. 1874 Chesterfield Head Selston, Nottinghamshire

                      1901 Urmston, Lancashire traveller to fairs
                      John Whiting c. 1852 Borwin A Tranlling Vam, Not Knownt, Norfolk, Head
                      Elizabeth Whiting c. 1854 Oleton, Yorkshire, Wife traveller to fairs
                      James Whiting c. 1879 Derbyshire, Cheshire, Nephew traveller to fairs
                      Alice Whiting c. 1893 Manchester, Lancashire, Daughter traveller to fairs


                      Saml. Whiting c. 1830 Diss, Norfolk, Head West Ham, Essex showman
                      Sarah Whiting c. 1851 Lenard, Norfolk, Wife West Ham, Essex

                      here is a few of em, now im out of time

                      mm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        this could just be a coincidence

                        Name: Jarvis Whiting
                        Year of Registration: 1881
                        Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
                        District: Chesterfield
                        County: Derbyshire
                        Volume: 7b
                        Page: 720

                        death

                        Name: Jarvis Whiting
                        Death Registration Month/Year: 1936
                        Age at death (estimated): 54
                        Registration district: Sheffield
                        Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
                        Volume: 9c
                        Page: 394

                        mm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have looked on the romanygenes site without much luck, but there is so much information on there.
                          Will go and have another look!!

                          I have looked at all the others that you have mentioned mm, and sure they are connected somehow, but can't quite connect them to my John Ernest Whiting.

                          Will keep looking, but I seem to be going around in circles, was even dreaming about them last night!!!
                          Last edited by West Yorkshire Maggy; 13-04-10, 14:08.
                          Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi - from the info mm has found, I'd be very surprised if there isn't a connection, especially as they're travellers to fairs and show people.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello Naomiatt, I'm sure they are connected too, but I just wish I could find the connection

                              How can someone not exist on any records until he got married

                              Maggy (still going round in circles!!)
                              Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by West Yorkshire Maggy View Post
                                Hello Naomiatt, I'm sure they are connected too, but I just wish I could find the connection

                                How can someone not exist on any records until he got married

                                Maggy (still going round in circles!!)
                                I know - it's frustrating! ;)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by West Yorkshire Maggy View Post

                                  How can someone not exist on any records until he got married

                                  Maggy (still going round in circles!!)
                                  I think they DO exist on records, but NOT with the information we're expecting, so we discount them.

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Still looking Janet, (and still going round in circles!), but yes, I'm sure the information is out there somewhere and I will not give up!!
                                    Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi there

                                      I will tell you of my research, My grannie (died just after my birth) had one brother and one sister. I found the brother up to 1901, and the sister(sarah Ann) on the census and baptisms, and BMD. I found the brothers marriage and follwed him up. The sister vanished off the face of the earth. No possible marriage, no possible death. Got contact with a 2nd cousin eventually through Ancestry. The older brother of my gran had married twice and had a child when he was old. This child is still alive, knocking 90, she had been in contact with a daughter of the missing Sarah Ann, She gave me her married name, so I traced my Sarah Anns Marriage.....she had changed her name to Lilly,;D married under the name Lilly;D and died under the name Lilly;D. This old lady had only known her as Aunty Lilly.

                                      When I looked up Lilly on the 1911, she was living with her parents, who I had been previously unable to trace because they had a super common name, with William and Sarah as first names, another stroke of luck.

                                      When somebody is difficult to find , it could be because they didnt like their given name.
                                      but finding their name change is very difficult, unless somebody knew them. I was lucky. You maybe need to consider a change of first name.

                                      food for thought

                                      mm

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks for that mm. I think I may be looking at adoptions, or families bringing up other peoples children, but still not sure on that one, and still going around in circles....lol... getting more confused by the hour!!!
                                        Looking for Allinson, Barker, Bedford, Crosby, Emanuel, Glasby, Heseltine, Lister, Moorhouse, Morgan, Rees, Seymour, Sidwell, Summers, Tate, Turpin, Wilson

                                        Comment

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