Ancestry Worldwide look up please if someone would be so kind

[Muppet]

I have been researching a friends family and could not find a marriage record for her grandmother and grandfather - Minnie Fentham (born about 1887) and William John Shuttleworth (born about 1886).

I have by an amazing stroke of luck discovered that that Minnie and William went out to the USA in probably 1905 to visit relatives. I know they were back and living in Southampton in 1911 (census) and showed married for 4 years with a 1 yr old son, George.

I wonder if they could possibly have married in the USA and a record could exist out there. I do not have worldwide access and wonder if some kind person who has could have a look for me? I know there is a NY Passenger List 1820 to 1957 record for a Minnie Fentham arriving in New York ( can't see the details though so would be grateful if anyone could help and confirm that this was around 1905) but I can't see any record of her coming back to England as Minnie Fentham. Could a marriage be the answer?

There is also a suggestion that their first child died on a ship coming back to England but no details whatsoever.

[champagnegal]

Minnie Fentham landed in NY on 27 May 1906 on board the Etruria. No record of William John Shuttleworth going out though.

[Richard in Perth]

They married on 23-Jun-1906 in Kings County, New York:

http://www.italiangen.org

Surname, Given Name, Month of Marriage, Day of Marriage, Year of Marriage, County, Certificate Number
Shuttleworth, William J, Jun, 23, 1906, Kings, 5644
Fentham, Minnie, Jun, 23, 1906, Kings , 5644

By the way, on the passenger list of the Etruria, she gave the name of her contact in USA as "Friend Mrs Shuttleworth, 1252 40th Street, Brooklyn, NY"

Cheers,
Richard

[naomiatt]

"There is also a suggestion that their first child died on a ship coming back to England but no details whatsoever"

On the 1911 census info by the number of children etc...does it mention anything in the not alive bit...

[Muppet]

Thank you so much Richard and ChampagneGirl for the info on the marriage and the ship. I now know why I could not find a marriage in England.

Naomiatt - good thinking. I have had another look at the 1911 census and it does show 1 child who died and 1 living. How sad to think they lost their first child and probably had to leave him or her at sea. I doubt they could have kept the body on board for the duration of the voyage.

Does anyone know how I would go about obtaining the marriage cert from the USA?

[Richard in Perth]

Hi Muppet

You can order NYC certs here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html...marriage.shtml

You can use the certificate number and other info I that found earlier, so no need to pay extra for a search. You can order online (click on the "REQUEST A CERTIFIED COPY ONLINE" link). The cost is $15 + handling, and it takes 4-6 weeks delivery. The cert should contain place of birth & parents names (inc. mothers maiden name) for both parties.

Cheers,
Richard

[Muppet]

Thanks Richard. I have ordered a copy. I will now be lying in wait for the Postman for the next few weeks.

[Muppet]

Being really cheeky now! I think I will have to take out a Worldwide sub next time. My family did not go abroad so I thought it would be of no use to me, however, now I have volunteered to do a friends tree I think it would be useful.

I am curious about the child who died on the boat coming back to England. I wonder if that child (no details whatsover) was born whilst Minnie and William were still in America or was born on the boat? If anyone was able to turn up a birth in the USA records that would answer the question for me.

I would dearly love to know more about their time in the USA.

Rather confused about William as it sounds as though he did not go over to the USA with Minnie. I wonder if he went over earlier or if he could have been in the Navy and got there that way? I have tried searching for a record of them coming back to England but with no success. I know they were back in 1910 as they have a son, George, in 1911 who was 1 and was born in Barrow in Furness.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I could search or ideas that i could follow up?

Eagerly awaiting the marriage cert which I have ordered from the USA.

[Richard in Perth]

Hi Muppet

There's a free online index to NYC births here: http://www.italiangen.org/NYCBirthsearch.asp . However it is not complete yet and in any case only goes to 1907. There is only one Shuttleworth listed for 1907: Kate Shuttleworth, born 24-Oct-1907 in Kings county. However, the index doesn't list parents names so you can't tell if she is "yours" or not unless you buy the certificate. Also, it's possible that William & Minnie's first child may have been born in 1908 or even early 1909 - years which are not covered by the index. Therefore, you may be better requesting a search at the NYC site (same as for the marriage), where you can request a search over several years (1906-1909 say) and you can specify the parents names. Direct link is here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html...ds/birth.shtml

Of course, if the child was born at sea then it won't have been registered in USA, but since the trip from US to Europe was only a couple of weeks then I would think it more likely that the child was born there prior to them leaving for England. I still can't find their incoming voyage to UK. It must have been between 1906-1909 as George's birth was registered in Q4 of 1909.

Cheers,
Richard

[Richard in Perth]

George's birth and death, which may help you narrow down the timeframe for the first child's birth (George born Sept 1909, and Minnie arrived in NY in May 1906, so the first child must have been born either 1907 or 1908):

Births Dec 1909
SHUTTLEWORTH George Edward Barrow F 8e 697


Name: George Edward Shuttleworth
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1909
Death Registration: May 1988
Age at death: 78
Registration district: Rochdale
Volume: 39
Page: 409

[Muppet]

Hello and thank you once again Richard for your help.

I had got the birth record for George but not his death.

I am getting very confused at the moment. Lesley, who's tree I am trying to produce has just been up and we have gone through all the records we have available. There is much discrepancy as to a lot of dates and I am going to look at updating my membership to allow me Worldwide access. The people who Minnie went out to stay with in Brooklyn say on the 1910 and 1920 USA census that they arrived in 1899 yet they appear on the UK 1901 census as living in Durham, England. It is without doubt them. I think I have taken on quite a challenge.

Thank you once again for your help and for the link to the Italian site which looks interesting.

[naomiatt]

Hi - I've come across lots of differences in years for when the people say they supposedly left the UK and/or arrived in the U.S....it could be that they left just after April 1901..

[Muppet]

I wonder if they could have ben less than truthful for some reason such as citizenship or qualification for something or other. All seems very odd as they were definitley in UK for 1901 census and had two children in Weymouth, Dorset in 1902 and 1904. In 1906 Minnie went out to stay with them in New Yorkand got married there.

My current Ancestry subs run out today and I am going to blow the budget and go for WW membership this time and do more trawling on passenger records etc. I am hoping that seeing occupations on the census records may give me a clue as to whether they had reason to travel between the USA and UK a few times.