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Eureka! Deciphered grandmother's London birthplace on 1901 census - advice needed.

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  • Eureka! Deciphered grandmother's London birthplace on 1901 census - advice needed.

    Before FTF was born, folk on G. Reunited tried unsuccessfully to decipher my grandmother's b.place on 1901 census. Just looked at it today and realised it said Green Lanes, Middx. Could someone else look with fresh eyes at the original census image and confirm?

    The enumerator has used a G and L elsewhere on that page and they look like the G and L of Green Lanes.

    On Google maps, Green Lanes is the A105 and an incredibly long road, crossing two boroughs of Hackney and Tottenham.

    1901 Census (names given as spelled on census.)

    Elizabeth Sarile (Saville) b1868 Green Lanes, Middx
    Thomas W Saville b1817 West Hythe, Kent Labourer (navvy) on new Reservoir.
    Alf Cranvill b1889 His surname is actually Clarke (by 1st marriage).
    Richard Cranvill b1891 (Cranwell children by 2nd marriage.)
    Lizzie Cranvill b1895
    Thomas Savill b1899
    William Savill b1901 1 week

    Address: 4 Union Rd, Tottenham
    (Lwr) (4 rooms)
    Civil par: Tottenham Ecc par: St Paul, Middx
    Reg district: Edmonton Sub-reg district: Tottenham
    ED, institution: 7 Household sch: 221

    My mother told me she was born 1866 and her father was William Hickman. I have a cert for what seemed the most likely person but could be wrong:

    Birth: IGI: 22/12/1865 Chr: 23/10/1867 Old Church, Saint Pancras
    Father: William Hickman Mother: Elizabeth Sarah

    Birth Cert: 22/12/1865 Elizabeth Jane Hickman
    Fa: William Hickman, Timber Merchant Porter. Mo: Elizabeth Butcher.
    Address: 32 Wilsted St, Somers Town, reg district of Pancras, Middx.

    Somers Town was virtually demolished to make way for the big railways stations. Never found her living with her parents in subsequent census only most likely with a grandmother and then in service. She swopped around her first and second names if I am right.

    She ended up in Edmonton, N London. In 1911, her birthplace is given by her daughter as Holloway which is fairly near to Green Lanes. Wonder if in those days it came under Holloway.

    She might not even have known her exact birthplace. Do you think I am at a dead end now but at least have transcribed the 1901 birthplace?

    Addendum: Her 2 marriage certs, which I know are right, give her birth year as 1862 and 1869...
    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 20-01-10, 08:24.
    Liz

  • #2
    I would agree with your logic, Liz. The approaches to St Pancras passenger station and Somers Town goods station (the British Library is built on that site) destroyed huge swathes of insanitary slums. The most likely explanation is that she moved soon after she was born. St. Pancras station was built between 1864 and 1868 so the demolition probably started about 1860 and was going on when she was born. Euston Road was being built at much the same time (the Metroplitan Railway opened in 1863 and Euston Road was built on top of the tunnel).
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi - Here's some more about Wilsted Street - 'Somers Town', Survey of London: volume 24: The parish of St Pancras part .... street south of Chapel Street (now removed) was known as Wilsted Street' http://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=65570

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post

        Addendum: Her 2 marriage certs, which I know are right, give her birth year as 1862 and 1869...
        Do her marriage certificates confirm father as William Hickman, Timber Merchant?
        Elaine







        Comment


        • #5
          Did you know her baptism entry is on Ancestry (with image) - address given as the Workhouse.
          Elaine







          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for quick response. I have a lot of info about the Pancras and Somers Town side - fascinating.

            First marriage cert gives her father as a traveller:

            Marriage Cert: 28/09/1884 at Church of St Ann, after banns in the parish of Tottenham.

            Jane Hickman (21) and Edward Clarke (22 yrs). Both single and lived at Green Lane.

            He was a labourer. His father: James Clarke, a labourer.
            Her father: William Hickman, a traveller (likely to be travelling salesman).

            No profession for father given in her third marriage. Her second marriage to Cranwell not found.

            Marriage Cert: 22/5/1897 at the Register office, Edmonton.
            Thomas Saville and Jane Elizabeth Cranwell

            He was a bachelor (29 yrs), Labourer, living at 3 White Horse Lane, Edmonton.
            His deceased father: Thomas Saville, was a butler.

            She was a widow (28 yrs), living at 4 White Horse Lane, Edmonton.
            Her father: William Hickman (no profession given). Makes her birth year about 1869.
            Witnesses: Susan Savil (?) and (the mark of) Mary Anne Alice Merry.


            Makes her birth year about 1862.
            Witnesses: George Clarke (his mark) and Kate Clarke. In the reg. district of Edmonton.
            Liz

            Comment


            • #7
              Elaine - have just taken out another trial membership of Ancestry but not able to open your link...will try again.

              Update: No, it will let me open census images and the basics but not the baptism entries. Can you give me details? I had the IGI baptism entry for what might be her...this sounds like a different one. There are a lot of Jane Elizabeth Hickmans and Elizabeth Jane Hickmans born betwen 1862 and 1868-9, I seem to remember. Just opening a new research word doc to redo some of them. Need to disappear for an hour but will be back.
              Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 20-01-10, 09:00.
              Liz

              Comment


              • #8
                Baptism entry:

                Elizabeth Jane Hickman
                Date of baptism - 23 Oct 1867
                Father - William Hickman
                Mother -Elizabeth Sarah Hickman
                Saint Pancras Old Church, in the parish of Camden, County Middlesex.

                Abode: Workhouse
                Occupation of father: Timber Porter
                Date of birth: 22 Dec 1865
                Elaine







                Comment


                • #9
                  have you looked at a marriage for her plausible parents? traced the grandparents? they might help confirm if you have the right jane elizabeth with grandma.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Am back now...yes, I have the Marriage Cert:

                    Her parents’ marriage cert: 25/12/1863 at Parish Church, St Pancras after banns.
                    William Hickman (full age) and Sarah Elizabeth Butcher (minor). Both single and signed their names. He was a Porter living at Phoenix St.
                    His deceased father: William Hickman (no profession given).
                    She was living at Wilstead St. Her deceased father: John Butcher (no profession given).
                    Witnesses: John Hickman and Lucretia Butcher (both signed their names).

                    Elaine thank you for the baptism entry...will get on to Ancestry about why can't access baps.

                    On her birth cert, it gives the address of birth as 32 Wilsted St...wonder if that was the workhouse.

                    I have traced back Elizabeth Butcher's family and as far as I can with William Hickman. It is securing the link between what I know from the 1901 and 1911 census and the marriage certs to the earlier stuff. To make sure I have the right Elizabeth Jane or Jane Elizabeth Hickman.
                    Liz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post

                      Elaine thank you for the baptism entry...will get on to Ancestry about why can't access baps.

                      On her birth cert, it gives the address of birth as 32 Wilsted St...wonder if that was the workhouse.
                      If you are on a trial membership then it will just be the basic UK Essentials package, which does not include the LMA records.

                      I have tried googling the workhouse to see if I can match it up with the Wilsted Street address - but not having much luck!
                      Elaine







                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Elaine. This is the entry for what I think is her in 1871:

                        1871 Census Jane Hickman b1868 St Pancras. Granddaughter
                        Household:
                        Head: Jane Butcher b1811 London Coleman St Laundress
                        Son: James Butcher b1841 Bricklayer’s labourer
                        Son: Robert Butcher b1849 Painter
                        Grandson: William Hickman b1864

                        Lodger Charles Foster 47 - painter

                        All Jane’s children and grandchildren b St Pancras
                        NB Her name transcribed as John Batcher but is Jane Butcher on census image.

                        Address: ?Elder Cottage, Willow Walk, West Green Rd.
                        Civil par: Tottenham Ecc parish: Holy Trinity, Middx
                        Reg district: Edmonton Sub-reg district: Tottenham
                        ED, institution: 12 Household sch: 186
                        Liz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And for 1881. Only likely entry for her. Her workplace is Holloway and this might be why she gave it as her birthplace in 1911 (or her daughter did when filling in the census):

                          1881 Census Jane E. Hickman b1863 London. Dom Servant
                          Household
                          Frederick W. Beckhuson 38 Gardener Independent b Newbury, Berks
                          Kate 26 wife b Dublin
                          Anna A. 2; Frances L. 3; Mary M. 4.
                          Anna Burchell 66 Assistant

                          Address: 2 Weedon Villas, Sunnyside Rd. Civil parish: St Mary Islington, London
                          Parliamentary Bor of Finsbury. ED, institution, or vessel: 94b
                          Ecc Par: St Mary the Less, Upper Holloway.
                          Reg district: Islington Sub-reg district: Islington East

                          She might have said she was older than she was to get work or just not known her year of birth. She was a very tiny woman in old age (under 5 foot).
                          Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 20-01-10, 17:53.
                          Liz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And 1891:

                            ? 1891 Census Jane E Clarke b1870 Middx. Dom. Servant
                            Household
                            Edmund L Johnson 33 b Liverpool – Metal Merchant
                            Marian Johnson 31 Wife
                            Barbara Johnson 2 Edmund Johnson 3 Helen L Johnson under 10 months
                            Edith A Nicholas 17 Dom Servant; Rose Cripps 22 Dom Servant

                            Address: Lawn Bank, John St Civil parish: Hampstead
                            Ecc parish: St Stephens, London ED, institution, or vessel: 10
                            Reg district: Hampstead Sub-reg district: Hampstead (Only likely entry for her)

                            1891 census – no entry under her married name Cranwell - so must have married him after this date. Her first husband was Clarke and she was married by this date.
                            Liz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not that it helps much, but just so you know - William Hickman grandson on the 1871 census - baptism entry on LMA:

                              William James Hickman
                              Baptism date 24 July 1864
                              Parents: William and Elizabeth Sarah
                              Father's occupation: Porter
                              Abode: Perry/Penny ?? Street
                              Date of birth 6 July 1864
                              Elaine







                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Naomi - thanks for that link. Have saved it in case I haven't already got it. Notice Phoenix St on there.
                                Liz

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Thank you Elaine. I had the IGI but your entry gives the address. Can you find the sister who I can't trace accurately in Marr or Deaths or census:

                                  IGI: FRANCES ELEANOR HICKMAN Birth: 1/12/1867
                                  Chr: 1/1/1868 Old Church, St Pancras
                                  Fa: William Hickman Mo: Elizabeth Sarah
                                  Liz

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    .. and there was another sibling

                                    Frances Eleanor Hickman
                                    Baptism 1 Jan 1868
                                    Father - William Hickman
                                    Mother - Elizabeth Sarah Hickman
                                    Saint Pancras Old Church

                                    William's occupation : Timber porter
                                    Abode: Workhouse
                                    Date of birth: 3 Dec 1867


                                    Cross posted!
                                    Elaine







                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Elaine - just a thought - would the workhouse have been used as a hospital for the poor and the birth needed assistance but her home address was actually Wilsted St?

                                      UPDATE: No, just twigged (having to get back into this) - the baptism was nearly 2 years after she was born. So looks like they fell on hard times then. Would it have indicated if her mother was deceased?
                                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 20-01-10, 10:47.
                                      Liz

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The entry in the baptism register is where they were living at the time - not the place of birth.
                                        Elaine







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