Unfaithful great-grandfather? No!

[Laurence]

I have been falsely accusing my gt-grandfather of infidelity.

On my grandmother's and 3 siblings' birth certificates their mother is shown as Marie or Mary Ganster formerly Poncin. On another child's certificate I was surprised to see her mother as Margaret Anne Mary Ganster formerly Zachary. I jumped to the obvious conclusion (assumed she was using the name Ganster to look proper), supported by being unable to find the new baby (born 1870) or her father in the 1871 census. I did find Mary Ganster with the next oldest child, then found the oldest 2 children in (separate) orphanages. I assumed father and baby had disappeared with baby's mother, leaving Mary unable to support all her children.

That was before I found evidence of my gt-grandparents' marriage. I knew they had come to London from France, and their oldest child was born in Paris. With the help of this forum I found brief details of the marriage of Etienne Ganster to Marguerite Poncin in 1858 in Paris (I assumed Marguerite was in fact Mary). Later I found another website, canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr, which I can recommend (free access), which showed more details of the marriage including the bride's full name, which was ... Marguerite Anne Marie Zacharie Poncin!!

So, can anyone suggest a) why my gt-grandmother's name was given in full on the one birth register (and wrong maiden name) and only as Marie/Mary on the others, and b) where my gt-grandfather and new baby were in 1871 (names Etienne or Stephen Ganster, also known as Edward, born c. 1830, and Marie Eugenie Ganster, known as Eugenie, born 1870)?

NB I have found at least 6 different spellings of Ganster, including Genster, Gauster, Gainster, Geanster and Gonsder!

The family were all living together (with a further child) in 1881 (but my grandmother was yet to be born).

Sorry this has turned out to be an essay - it has been quite a journey to get this far!

[Christine in Herts]

The answer to [a] is probably some mix of human fallibility / laziness - or a misunderstanding of what was required - with possible language barrier opportunities for confusion factored in.

[b] - yet to be answered - you probably need the attention of Elaine... Spain: she's the census expert!

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi - not answering your questions as such - do you know where they were living in London? I'm sure that Zacharie is the maiden name of Marguerite's mother. This may also be useful http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6062324AAIEiUZ -
"Since the 1789 Revolution, the law stipulates that "no one may use another name than that given on their birth certificate";[23] furthermore, the 1946 revision to the Constitution guarantees that "women and men have equal rights", including in the use of their birth name. Upon getting married, a woman keeps her maiden name (nom de jeune fille). She may, under her maiden name, for example, open a bank account, sign checks, obtain a passport, etc. However, marriage grants a married person the right to assume his or her spouse's last name - A married person who wishes to formally append a spouse's name to his or her birth name may do so through a simple administrative procedure. In recent years, this trend has gained popularity, especially among upper class women and among women who received a university diploma (MD, PhD) under their maiden name. For example, the president's new wife is called Madame Bruni Sarkozy in which "Bruni" is her birth name and "Sarkozy" her husband's name. Some husbands append their wife's last name to their birth name, although this remains rare"

[Laurence]

Hi - not answering your questions as such - do you know where they were living in London? I'm sure that Zacharie is the maiden name of Marguerite's mother. This may also be useful http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6062324AAIEiUZ -

Very interesting, Naomi. They were living in the East End but they moved about quite a lot - I have them first in Stepney, then Whitechapel, Bishopsgate, then south of the river in Lambeth and Southwark, then in Hackney.

I can't find out anything about the previous generation because I don't know where they came from, though I have a few clues. References to their birth places in later documents include Luxembourg and Germany for Marie, and Germany and Alsace-Lorraine for Etienne. Both Luxembourg (including the Belgian province) and Alsace-Lorraine were under German control at the time.

[Christine in Herts]

I've tried most of the tricks I can think of, without success, I'm afraid. In looking for Eugenie, I've submitted a lot of corrections for names starting Eng...

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi - yes, it is interesting. Coincidence as my father lives in France and we were chatting about French surnames the other day. Have you found any of them in the 1911 census? Anything in the London Gazette? This could be useful for Alscace-Lorraine http://distantcousin.com/SurnameReso...ACE%20LORRAINE I believe that area of France see themselves as being quite separate...http://dgmweb.net/Ancillary/Geog/Eur...Lorraine.shtml
and for Luxembourg http://www.luxembourg.co.uk/genealog.html There are lots of German records around...do you have specific town names?

[Laurence]

Thanks for the links Naomi. Unfortunately I don't have any place names, which seem to be essential for most European countries outside the UK. Both gt-grandparents died before 1911. I have found some of their children in 1911 but no help with place of origin. Haven't tried the London Gazette yet.

Laurence.

[naomiatt]

On the further marriage info that you found for Paris - does it say anything about both of their parents, occupations and things like that?

[Laurence]

No, there is nothing except the date and the couple's names. On the other document on Ancestry it also showed the parish name (Notre Dame de Lorette, Paris) but nothing else. I think it's because both these documents were reconstructed after the originals were destroyed or damaged (they are in a collection called "l'etat civil reconstituee").

[naomiatt]

Have you tried some of the French forums?

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.france-genealogie.fr/&ei=d8BYS5TOLI3MsgOqw63GBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCoQ7gEwCA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgenealogie%2Bfrance%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1R2GGLA_en-GB

http://www.kindredtrails.com/france.html

This has a photo of Notre Dame de Lorette http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-D...ris_M%C3%A9tro)
I've heard that finding records can be difficult sometimes and is also geared to arrondissement's.

[Laurence]

I've tried Geneanet and soc.genealogy.french without success. I suspect there just isn't any more surviving information from Paris. I will have to pursue sources in Belgium/Luxembourg/Alsace but it's difficult without knowing the places of origin. But knowing (or assuming) the mother's maiden name may help.