Can anyone help with INcoming passenger lists?

[vikki brace]

I am trying to confirm that one of my Titchmarsh's came back to the UK from NZ in 1890. I have found a possible candidate setting sail on 17th Apr 1890 from Wellington to London on the R.M.S.S. Kaikoura, but the list only give the surname not the first name (or even initial).

Can anyone help? I checked the wiki but nothing there

[Anne in Carlisle]

I looked at the incoming passengers on Ancestry but no Titchmarsh arrives in 1890. One from Chile in 1899 and all the others from 1903 onwards. I've not taken into account mistranscriptions though.

Anne

[Christine in Herts]

There doesn't seem to be anything transcribed for "Kaikoura" in 1890. That doesn't mean that the ship's name hasn't been mistranscribed, of course! I've tried a couple of ideas, but no success yet. If the writing's bad enough for the ship's name to be mistranscribed, then the passenger names may also be mistranscribed. (I'm assuming that the ship would have arrived in UK in 1890,having left as early as April).

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

In fact there don't seem to be any transcriptions for ships connected with New Zealand in 1890.

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

I've tried to look at newspaper archives in UK for the reciprocal info - but Titchmarsh in 1890 seems to bring up only cricketing Hits.

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi - is there anything in papers past? Sometimes they list passengers incoming/departing;

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast

Also, he might have gone via Australia, so also http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
I tend to ignore the specific newspapers and do it as a whole as more info seems to come out that way...

[Christine in Herts]

I found the outgoing record in Papers Past - it has only surnames, I suspect that that's where

I have found a possible candidate setting sail on 17th Apr 1890 from Wellington to London on the R.M.S.S. Kaikoura, but the list only give the surname not the first name (or even initial).

came from.

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi - I just found this "The s.s. “Kaikoura,” the property of the New Zealand Shipping Company, was built at Brown's Yards on the Clyde, Scotland, in the year 1903" -

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc05Cycl-t1-body1-d3-d29-d2.html

but then to contradict that, a passenger arrival list "Evening Post 27 Dec 1867
The s.s. Kaikoura arrived at four o'clock yesterday afternoon... The
Kaikoura left Panama on the 28th November (29th New Zealand time) at
noon." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dchamber/kaikoura.htm
London to Wellingtom - 1889

http://family.kiwicelts.com/20_Shipping/Ship_Kaikoura.html

http://timeframes.natlib.govt.nz/logicrouter/servlet/LogicRouter?PAGE=object&OUTPUTXSL=object.xslt&pm_RC=REPO02DB&pm_OI=90758&pm_GT=Y&pm_IAC=Y&api_1=GET_OBJECT_XML&num_result=0&Object_Layout=about_object

Do you have the person's first name?

[Uncle John]

Hi Naomi

It was very common for a new ship to be given the same name as one that had been decommissioned or renamed, so the 1903 Kaikoura must be a successor.

[Christine in Herts]

This site is illuminating:

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/descriptions/ShipsK.html

Please note that ships often changed hands and names many times. If an entry is just the name of the vessel followed by a "see..." then that vessel was renamed and you will find the full history under the redirected name.

and

KAIKOURA / ZAIDA 1884
4474 gross tons, length 430ft x beam 36ft (131.06m x 14.02m), clipper bows, one funnel, three masts (rigged for sail), single screw, speed 14 knots. Accommodation for 77-1st, 58-2nd and 230-emigrant class passengers. Built by John Elder & Co, Glasgow, she was delivered to the New Zealand Shipping Co, London in Sep.1884 and left London on 24th Oct.1884 on her maiden voyage to Cape Town, Wellington and Auckland. She continued this service until starting her last voyage for the company on 5th Feb.1899. Sold to the British India Steam Navigation Co in June 1900, she was renamed ZAIDA, refitted to carry 142-1st and 20-2nd class passengers and used on the Madras - Straits Settlements - Singapore route until she was scrapped in Italy in Jan.1907.[Merchant Fleets by Duncan Haws, vol.7, New Zealand Shipping Co]

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

If you want to know what the ship looked like...

http://timeframes.natlib.govt.nz/logicrouter/servlet/LogicRouter?PAGE=object&OUTPUTXSL=object.xslt&pm_RC=REPO02DB&pm_OI=90758&pm_GT=Y&pm_IAC=Y&api_1=GET_OBJECT_XML&num_result=0&Object_Layout=about_object

http://timeframes.natlib.govt.nz/logicrouter/servlet/LogicRouter?PAGE=object&OUTPUTXSL=object.xslt&pm_RC=REPO02DB&pm_OI=84303&pm_GT=Y&pm_IAC=Y&api_1=GET_OBJECT_XML&num_result=0&Object_Layout=about_object

http://family.kiwicelts.com/20_Shipping/Ship_Kaikoura.html

and this is some music with a picture on the cover!

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1954044

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

You can get some idea about when it would have reached UK, by looking at the outbound crossings either side...

Ship ~Port Dep ~Sailed ~Port Arr ~Arrived ~Days ~Captain ~Notes

Kaikoura ~London ~5/02/1890 ~Wellington ~24/03/1890 ~44 ~W C Crutchley ~67 passengers - via Plymouth where it left on 8/02/1890

Kaikoura ~London ~13/11/1890 ~Wellington ~30/12/1890 ~. ~W C Crutchley ~via Plymouth where it left on 15/11/1890

Theoretically there are outbound passenger list transcriptions fo rthese crossings, but both links seem to be broken.

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi Naomi

It was very common for a new ship to be given the same name as one that had been decommissioned or renamed, so the 1903 Kaikoura must be a successor.

Hi Uncle John - I didn't realize that. I thought once a boat/yacht had it's name, it always stayed the same and it was deemed unlucky to change it..but that could be an old wives tale.
A boat is a bit different to a big ship though! ;-)

[naomiatt]

This site is illuminating:

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/descriptions/ShipsK.html

and


Christine

Hi Christine - yes, it is a good site. I've got more knowledge about ship's names now! ;-)

There are a few T's in here...in case some came to Australia from NZ, or the other way round;-

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

[vikki brace]

Thank you for looking for me. I found the details on paperspast site. I am hoping to confirm that this Titchmarsh is Mynot Titchmarsh b.1830(yes another one of those...lol)

[Uncle John]

Hi Uncle John - I didn't realize that. I thought once a boat/yacht had it's name, it always stayed the same and it was deemed unlucky to change it..but that could be an old wives tale.
A boat is a bit different to a big ship though! ;-)

The only time a name may not be reused is if the ship sank or there was loss of life. The "Ellan Vannin" which sailed from Liverpool to the Isle of Man about 1900 is one, and I suspect the inter-island NZ ferry that was wrecked about 25 years ago is another. There was an unfortunate clash of names when the Cunarder Queen Mary was to be named in the 1930s. There was already a Clyde steamer of that name, which was hurriedly renamed Queen Mary II. She is now moored in the Thames and has lost the suffix now that the Queen MAry is no longer afloat.