Latin codicil anyone please?

[Heather Positive Thinker]

I wonder if anyone can fumble through this paragraph on a Will I have just received please? If you click on the image it gets big enough to read

Will0001.jpg

[Christine in Herts]

First quick transcription (beginning) - some words are certainly not correct - looking at context should enable tweaking to something more accurate:

Quarto Die indusis Septembris Anno Domini Millesimo
Septingentesimo viresimo Secundo emanabit Commissio Catharinae
Carter viduae Relictae et Legatariae Residuariae nominat' in Testamento
Rogeri Carter uxor de Questliam in Comitatu ###### sed in N...oe
Mortatoria le Dartmouth defuncti habentis et ad administrandum
bona Jura et credita dicti defuncti Juxta tenorum et affertum
Testamenti et Codicilli ipsius defuncti Eoquod Hestera Parsons
Vidua Mater dicti defuncti et Johannes Stile Executores in dicto
Testamento moninat' prius renunciano verint' ae bone et fideliter
Administrando eadem ad Sancta Idi Evangelia Jurat ... Exam'

Hastily started translation - but there are better Latin scholars here than I - who will probably suss out my mistranscriptions when they realise what the words ought really to say!

... the day of September AD 1727 ...... of Catharine
Carter widow and residuary legatee named in the Testament
of Roger Carter, his wife ...
died in Dartmouth ...
said to be good judgment and credit
Testament and codicils of this deceased, of whom Hester Parsons
Widowed mother of the said deceased and John Stile executors in the said
Testament .... good and faithful
administer this swore on the Holy Gospel (??)

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

I might come back to this later - but someone should be able to take this and run with it.

there are errors in both transcription and translation: correcting one should help correct the other - in either direction!

Christine

[Heather Positive Thinker]

Many thanks Chris.

Oh, its actually "The Dartmouth" - he went down with his ship on the way to the east indies

[Christine in Herts]

There's a proper Latin scholar on the site, somewhere, who would make a much better translation that I could. I think his name is Roger?

Christine

[Anne in Carlisle]

I might be wrong, Heather but I think this bit is just the Probate part. I have a couple of wills which are all in English except for the last bit. when I managed to get the jist of them it was just who had been granted probate ie the executor(s). The most important bit is the date.

Anne

[Christine in Herts]

I rather thought that the bit I'd managed to interpret suggested swearing on oath to do a good and faithful job of administering the Will, rather than being a further addition to the WIll.

Christine

[Uncle John]

I rather thought that the bit I'd managed to interpret suggested swearing on oath to do a good and faithful job of administering the Will, rather than being a further addition to the WIll.

It begs the question - how did the executors know what they were putting their names to unless they read Latin?

[Peter Evans]

Christine,

Some suggestions: I think the date should be 'the fourth day of September [mensis rather than indusis?] and the year is 1722 (secundo).
'His wife from Questlia [a village?] in the county of ????'

Peter

[Christine in Herts]

I am definitely not claiming a monopoly on this translation project! I reckon it's a great opportunity for on of the team efforts which FTF does so well.

... and mensis makes much more sense than my non-word! As for my putting a 7 for secundo...Duh!

Happy to be open to other ideas.

Christine

[Peter Evans]

Heather,

Apologies for misattributing your thread.

I think I have worked out most of the text now:

Quarto die mensis Septembris anno domini millesimo
septingentisimo vicesimo secundo emanavit commissio Catharinae
Carter viduae delicti et legatoriae residuariae nominat[ae] in testamento
Rogeri Carter ????[not uxor] de ??stham in comitatu Essex(?) ??? in ????
mercatoria ?? Dartmouth defuncti habentis ?? ad administrandum
bona iura et credita dicti defuncti iu?ta-torum et assortum [or assertum]
testamenti et codicilli ipsius defuncti. Eo quod Hestera Parsons
vidua mater dicti defuncti et Johannes Stilo executores in dicto
testamento nominat[i] prius renunciaverint(?) de(?) bene et fideliter
administrando eadem ad Sancta dei Evangelia iurat exam-

It seems to be written in pretty correct Latin. I shall be interested to see if you can fill in the gaps or improve the text.

Peter

[Christine in Herts]

iu?ta-torum et assortum [or assertum]

That's an x - it's Juxta
the next words look like tenorum et assertum, now that I'm getting my eye back in.

The lower-case letter like a theta is an e. The lower-case letter which looks like a modern lower-case r is a c.

I learned a lot of these letters when I had the pleasure (and privilege) of looking through the parish registers of Fincham, and the other parishes in the Group, when my father was Rector there, and someone in NZ had asked for research into the HOUCHEN name. My father thought it was just the job for a university vacation - and so I had a great time!

Christine

[Peter Evans]

Christine,

I think it probably is iuxta but I don't know what tenorum et assertum would mean since they are in different cases.

Do you think the fourth line might end "Essexiae sed in nave"?

Peter

[Christine in Herts]

Christine,

... Do you think the fourth line might end "Essexiae sed in nave"?

Peter

That seems very likely. Wouldn't that make it a merchant ship?

Christine

[Peter Evans]

Christine,

Yes it would make it a merchant ship with the mercatoria (right gender) in the next line but I was afraid I was seeing "nave" because I wanted/expected to see it rather than because it was actually there. Earlier I read the word as "manor" because that seemed to fit. It would be helpful in deciphering the start of the fourth line if we knew we were actually dealing with a village in Essex. Perhaps Heather can assist here.

By the way, do you agree with my reading in the last line of "dei"? The letter forms seem right and it is certainly appropriate to have the" Holy Gospel of god" although the lower case is strange.

Have you had any thoughts on the remaining queries?

Peter

[Christine in Herts]

I think it probably is Dei. I suspect that the examples of defuncti are actually Defuncti: there are other examples of lower-case d which are a different shape.

Will go back and have a look at other queries. (You do realise you're dealing with 'O' level Latin, on my part?!)

Christine

[Peter Evans]

Christine,

I am impressed but then you always learned things better at O level than at any other exam.

Peter

[Christine in Herts]

This is from your post, above, plus our new addenda...

Quarto Die mensis Septembris Anno Domini Millesimo
Septingentisimo vicesimo Secun∂o emanavit Commissio Catharinæ
Carter vi∂uæ Relictæ et Legatariæ Resi∂uariæ nominat[æ] in Testamento
Rogeri Carter ...per ∂e *Westham in Comitatu Essexiæ se∂ in Nave
Mercatoria le Dartmouth Defuncti habentis xt a∂ a∂ministran∂um
bona Iura et Credita Dicti Defuncti Iuxta tenorum et effectum
Testamenti et Codicilli ipsius Defuncti. Eo quo∂ Hestera Parsons
vi∂ua Mater ∂icti Defuncti et Johannes Stile Executores in Dicto
Testamento nominat[i] prius renunciaverint. De bene et fi∂eliter
A∂ministran∂o ea∂em a∂ Sancta Dei Evangelia Iurat. Exam-

I think that includes all our comments. I may have changed some letters back again - I'm fairly convinced about it if I have done so. I've put the capital letters in wherever I spotted them - and put any lower-case d as ∂.

*The only Westham on Google maps is in Sussex - and that, surely, can't say Sussexiæ? ... Unless... of course!, it's the place now known as West Ham?

Christine

[Peter Evans]

Christine,

On reflection I think you are right that it is "effectum".

In the 4th line your reading "---er" is probably "nuper" "recently" or "late" of *West Ham.

We are getting close to finishing it but in the penultimate line "renunciaverint" looks odd: it could be either the future perfect tense or the perfect subjunctive but I can't immediately see how either fits. I am also puzzled by the "iuxta tenorum et effectum". I'll sleep on it and consult a colleague tomorrow.

Peter

[Heather Positive Thinker]

Blimey guys, I thought this was dead a long time back. Thank you for everyone who has laboured on it for me. Cousin tells me that there is rather a large bit more that I hadnt noticed when he sent it to me.

As far as Im aware the Acton part of the family had property around Cheapside area, but then Roger Carter is a married in. (My cousin sent me this a time ago: Hestor Acton is the mother of Robert Acton.)

"I did learn that the Dartmouth was in the employ of the East India Company from 1710-1720 and made four trips she weighed 440 tons so quite small.
Hestors Will in 1722 states that both Robert her son and the ships Captain, her son in law were recently deceased."




Whats fascinating guys, is that this family (my aristo bunch) were so wealthy just prior to this and shortly after and yet my line ended up being lightermen and watermen - LOL, even though the great grandson of Hestor, my direct ancestor, John Acton was a pilot for the Deptford Royal dockyard and then a Victualler - dolling out the supplies for both merchant and royal navy and making a very substantial amount of money, well a fortune, in the process. How things can change from one generation to the next.