Who's the mother?

[scorpioleah]

Mother Found
More help is needed on this family, further down

David Rees and Mary Ann Daniel married august 23rd 1868.
David age 20 Barfsman? its hard to make out his job, i will scan the certificate. Mary Age 16.
They married at parish church, Neath.
Witness Thomas Maker and Morgan Williams.

Mary's father was John Daniel a labourer still alive.

Here comes the bit i need help with,
David rees' father was William Williams a labourer still alive or atleast its not written that he is deceased.
So i've had a look for a david rees with father william williams and a mother rees. Nothing. I just tried with a mother rees. nothing. but i did find in the 1851 census a mother with her father and her child david rees in neath

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=david&gsln=rees&rg_81004010__date=1848&msrpn__ftp=neath&rs_81004010__date=5&_83004003-n_xcl=f&ne=3&pcat=1851UKI&h=15579115&recoff=1+2&db=uki1851wales&indiv=1

It looks like they weren't married i can assume. But if david knew his father was william, would it have been on his birth certificate. If not and its just his mum going to be on there i have nothing i can confirm that the ones above are the right ones

[ozgirl]

Have you noticed that they are living next door to a William Williams, aged 30 who is a labourer, and unmarried? Might be a coincidence...

Linda

[scorpioleah]

i didnt notice that! and that would be a huge coincidence!

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851wales&indiv=try&h=15579110

just had a better look and they are living at james street. this must be the right one has james street my david rees was living at age 20. That will teach me for doing family research on my ipod (internet on there but not a big enough screen to have a good old look lol) thanks ozgirl

[scorpioleah]

I have found the family in 1861

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861wales&indiv=try&h=13743908

Piece: 4086; Folio: 51; Page: 8

Having a hard time finding any of them in 1871 though

is caston a comman name or not?

[scorpioleah]

having trouble finding them

so tried finding lucy's birth on freebmd and nothing. The only lucy caston's were born in 1870s. Tried just using the surname, no birth between 1850 - 1860 with the caston last name in glamorgan area. So i checked other areas but none close to neath. Lucy could be a middle name or a name she gets called, or she may not be registered?

Tried freereg, and found nothing on that :(

Is there a way to search an address in 1871? they may still be at the same address

[Darksecretz]

Have you found a marriage between Gwenllian & Thomas? that might clarify the surname.. its not the easiest to read

[Darksecretz]

It looks like they weren't married i can assume. But if david knew his father was william, would it have been on his birth certificate. If not and its just his mum going to be on there i have nothing i can confirm that the ones above are the right ones

if he was illegitimate then it might not show the fathers 'supposed' name, it might on a baptism record though. do you know WHO morgan williams is? (the witness?) could they be related to william williams? if so that might be a way to connect them

looking at the census detials you have it does seem very likely that gwenllian is his mother and for some reason didnt marry this william chap but married thomas instead.

[ozgirl]

There is a Lucy Calton born Sep Q 1853 in Neath. Might be worth checking out.

Linda

[ozgirl]

Also Thomas Carton b. 1814 died in Neath in 1866, March Quarter. In 1871 Lucy Carton aged 19 is a domestic servant for her widowed aunt, Ann Hughes
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?...=&pid=27016024].

Can't find a marriage between Gwenllian and Thomas Calton, but there is an entry for Gwenllian Rees marrying either Thomas Jenkins or William Jones in Dec. Quarter 1861 on BMD

[scorpioleah]

if he was illegitimate then it might not show the fathers 'supposed' name, it might on a baptism record though. do you know WHO morgan williams is? (the witness?) could they be related to william williams? if so that might be a way to connect them

looking at the census detials you have it does seem very likely that gwenllian is his mother and for some reason didnt marry this william chap but married thomas instead.

I don't know who the morgan williams' is i can only assume its a relation to william williams, but the again it could be anyone as it is a comman name. i will search for william williams' on the 1841 census to see if he has any brothers or sisters

ozgirl:
yes that does seem worth a check, will order that cert with ref checks.

Darksecretz:
Is there a way to check baptism records online? i have tried freeREG

searched for a marriage between thomas caston and gwenllian rees, may just try thomas and gwenllian rees she what comes up

edit:
found this one:

Marriages Mar 1853 (>99%)
CARTON Thomas Neath 11a 481

can't see a birth for lucy carton though

[Darksecretz]

Darksecretz:
Is there a way to check baptism records online? i have tried freeREG

found this one:

Marriages Mar 1853 (>99%)
CARTON Thomas Neath 11a 481

Yep i'd say thats the marriage.. re the bapt..you might get lucky have you had a look on our Glamorgan wiki page?

http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/Glamorgan

[scorpioleah]

to view records can you just go to, for example Parish of Neath - St.Thomas`church, and they will be there or are they kept somewhere else?

[Darksecretz]

they might be on microfiche in the local studies library, would that be in Glam? (sorry I dont know the area very well) thats IF he was baptised at all, he might not have been. failing that the parish records should be at the archives http://www.glamro.gov.uk/

[scorpioleah]

Think i may have found Gwen's parents.
The father David and mother Lucy, Would explain Gwen named her daughter Lucy

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1841wales&indiv=try&h=14200444

on FreeReg only found these marriages:

between david rees and luce thomas 09 May 1818 Merthyr Tyd
david rees and luce hughes 31 Jul 1823 neath

i think the second one looks promising, with that as its a parish record, i would have to go view it? not like certificate where i can order online?

[scorpioleah]

I got the certificates back and on david's birth it has gwenllian as mother. But no father, i kind of expected that. Sad to read that he was born in a workhouse.
Also got gwenllian's marriage to Thomas Carton.

Just wanted to check but neath registrar are now charging £10 each if you want to take the certificates away the same day. I think thats not right at all. Are all registrars doing this?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Some Registrars are charging a lot more than £10 to take a certificate away on the same day and others aren't offering a same day service or any historical certificate service at all, so I suppose £10 is fine - they have you over a barrell.

Local Registration Offices are funded by local councils, who individually decide what a "special" service costs and whether they are going to provide it or not.

OC

[Uncle John]

Just wanted to check but neath registrar are now charging £10 each if you want to take the certificates away the same day. I think thats not right at all. Are all registrars doing this?

Some Registrars are charging a lot more than £10 to take a certificate away on the same day and others aren't offering a same day service or any historical certificate service at all, so I suppose £10 is fine - they have you over a barrell.

Local Registration Offices are funded by local councils, who individually decide what a "special" service costs and whether they are going to provide it or not.

If you are able to visit a local register office in person, you can search the registers yourself without charge. You only have to pay if you want a certificate.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Uncle John

I think you will find that there IS a charge if you want to search the register yourself. In my area it is £30 per hour, by appointment and at the convenience of the Registrar, who has to be present when you search.

In the area where my daughter lives - another county - it CLEARLY states on the Register Office websote

"We regret that you are unable to search our registers in person".

OC

[scorpioleah]

I would expect it for a city.
Anyone who has been to neath, it is very small
neath isn't a big place at all. and everytime i have been in there, there has never been anyone else, so i think thats why im a bit dissapointed over it. Also When i went there they wouldnt allow me to look until i bought the certificate. do you know if you can look yourself at every place?

[Uncle John]

Uncle John

I think you will find that there IS a charge if you want to search the register yourself. In my area it is £30 per hour, by appointment and at the convenience of the Registrar, who has to be present when you search.

In the area where my daughter lives - another county - it CLEARLY states on the Register Office websote

"We regret that you are unable to search our registers in person".

I was just going by my recollection of what Guy had said at some stage. In "Heir Hunters" this week someone from Fraser & Fraser was going through registers and picking out the ones they needed certificates for. But of course you don't know how much they were paying to do it.