First World War knowledge required

[Allan]

My grandfather always said that he was lucky in that he was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2.
However he was born in 1895, doesn't appear to have a 'reserved occupation' but I can't find an army record for him.
I know he served in Dads Army in WW2 and I doubt if he was a Concientious Objector.
Any ideas. Is it possible he just didn't volunteer?
Thanks for any help.

[Olde Crone Holden]

He may have failed the medical for WW1. Do you know what work he did during WW1?

EDIT - Conscription started in 1916, so he couldn't have just faikled to volunteer.

OC

[congletonian]

not all army service records survived so that could explain why you can't find them.Have you tried looking in the medal roll index?That would give you his regiment and service number.

Liz

[Lynn The Forest Fan]

My great great uncles who were born in 1893 and 1899 both served, so there may well be some reason for him not serving, perhaps poor health?

[Allan]

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying.
In the 1911 census he is shown as 15 years old so no help there.
His name is Fred William Harrod and he was born in Dover, Kent if that helps.
Many thanks

[Sylvia C]

But what was he doing in 1911??


have you looked at the image to see what his occupation was?


School leaving age at that time was 12 ......... as long as a child had attended a certain number of days in total since the first day of school at ca 4 years of age. It was possible to go onto further schooling, but most children did not unless their parents were reasonably well off


So at 15, he should either have been at school, or in an occupation of some sort.


I have the certificates that were given to my dad in July 1916 and to my mother in July 1915, which stated that they had met the requirements for attendance and could now leave school. They were both 12 years old by the end of the school year. Dad's looks as though he carried it around in his wallet for years... as if he had to prove that he could legally seek work.


sylvia

[SueNSW]

1911 census image shows nothing in the occupation box for him - so no clue there

There is a medal card for a F W Harrod in the Buffs (East Kent Regiment) - 5th battalion - which was a Territorial battalion - his entry into a theatre of war - 9/12/1915 - 5a Asiatic - suggests probably 1/5 - from The Long Long Trail website

1/5th (Weald of Kent) Battalion
August 1914 : in Ashford. Part of Kent Brigade, Home Counties Division. 29 October 1914 : to India. The Division was broken up on arrival in Bombay. Joined Jubbulpore Brigade in 5th (Mhow) Division. November 1915 to 35th Brigade in 7th (Meerut) Division in Mesopotamia. Brigade moved to 14th (Indian) Division in May 1916.

No guarantee it is him though - and why would he "lie" about his involvement - whilst the fighting and conditions in the east weren't necessarily as much recorded as on the western front and Galliipoli for example - they were still pretty torrid - certainly not a cushy spot to see out the war

Another possibility is that living in Dover he might have had some connection with the sea - docks maybe or trawlers - many of which were requisitioned - but again why pass it off as supposedly being too young??

Maybe you have to do some more digging Alan - photos maybe??

Good Luck
Sue

[Allan]

Hi Sue
I am logged on at work so no notes with me, but I believe his younger brother Alfred William Harrod (b1901) was in the Buffs so it could be the right one. I don't recall any sea connection and he lived with us for many years.
Where would I find his war record? Also does his 'medal card' show what medals he would have been awarded and why?
I have photos of him but nothing in uniform. Strangely nothing pre 1930s.
Is it possible he witnessed something and just shut that part of his life away never foreseeing that a nosey grandson would start digging many years later?

[SueNSW]

Allan - the medal card shows the 3 "normal" medals he was entitled to - by service - 1914/15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal - rather than "gallantry/long service etc" recognition. This NA page explains them -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp?WT.hp=Campaign%20Medals%20-%20%C2%A32

You can download a copy of the card from here for GBP2.00 - or you can view it on Ancestry

Many service records didn't survive a fire during the blitz in WW2 - so if they are not among the surviving ones that Ancestry has put on line (and they didn't seem to be from a quick look) - you probably won't find them

You may get some limited clues about the service dates etc of this man from the entries on the medal rolls at Kew (not on line) but they are not likely to help you absolutely confirm he is your g/f. His enlistment date though might help you work out if this chap was possibly too old to be him.

If you have access to Ancestry you may be able to go down the laborious route of searching for surviving records of similarly numbered men in the same battalion - to see if they give any clues - but the main other possibility if the family don't have the medals or any documentation from the time, is to scour local newspapers of the period to see if he got a mention for anything - joining up/going overseas/wounded/letters home/returnig home/broher joining up for example

The other thing the card shows is he was Diembodied (ie left the force) on 1/5/1919

There is a lot of general information on the well respected Long Long Trail website - http://www.1914-1918.net/

This page for example explains about the Territorial renumbering in 1917 for example - which explains why he had 2 numbers -2448 engraved on the 14/15 Star and 240708 on the 2 issued later - http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm

Obviously - your guess is as good as mine as to why your g/f chose to pretend he didn't serve if he in fact did..........................but many men certainly found it hard to talk about

Good Luck with it

Cheers
Sue

[Kit]

There are no service records for your grandfather.

There is a medal card for an FW that has regimental numbers of 2448 and 240748. He served in E. Kent R (East Kent regiment?)
http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec/...c=&pid=3288668

off to look further.

[Kit]

There are a few Frederick's getting medals but no idea how to tell if one is yours.

[Kit]

Was his father Henry? Did they live in Durham? There is a Frederick who does. He got a service pension

Edit: the name is Fred not Frederick.


Nothing else stands out to me. Sorry.