Update to my birthdate/place search in Military Records

[Chrissie Smiff]

For those who saw my original thread looking for Ronald Joseph Sullivan who received the Military Medal.
I now have his regiment and service number and the date that he got his medal and the date he won it (17/10/1918) and for what. He won it on 17/10/1918 for gallentry and devotion to duty during the attack at Regnicourt-Audigny line. I also have the date of the reference in the London Gazette (17/6/1919) but on these he is only listed as Joseph Sullivan. I have also found the record of his medal on Ancestry but I cannot find any service record that may help me to know when/where he was born. Even the Sherwood Forresters (his regiment) do not have his birth date. Any suggestions please?

Joseph Sullivan - Sherwood Forresters - Regimental No 266886 Private 1/5th Battallion.

[lisajj]

do you know where he was born? there are a lot of Joseph Sullivans on the 1911 census, no Ronalds though.

[Chrissie Smiff]

No Lisa - that's what I was hoping his records would tell me - where and when born. The military records that have been found only give his name as Joseph and so do his childrens birth certs. But everything to do with the murder case state Ronald Joseph. There is no likely birth for a Ronald Joseph anyway though. He was supposed to be 39 in 1935.

[annswabey]

You could contact Stephen Morris who has written a book on the case. There are extracts available online and he is variously referred to as Ronald Joseph and Joe. Email address is info@nursewaddingham.co.uk I have also seen on a site that he served in Ireland after WW1 so any Army records may still be held by the MOD. Only next of kin can apply for them, though. They are unlikely to give date of birth, probably just place and year.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Thanks you Ann. I do know about Stephen Morris thank you. My contact that I have been researching for for the last 2 or 3 years gave Stephen a lot of the information that I found for his book. Unfortunately Stephen is as interested to know as we are what happened to (Ronald) Joseph, so he is no wiser.
That's very interesting about the Ireland service. Can you tell me which site you saw that on please?
The place and year would be great but unfortunately his next of kin is likely to be his daughter and we can't find her either.

[annswabey]

The Ireland service is mentioned on Wikipaedia which quotes 2 sources - see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothe...am#cite_note-1

[Chrissie Smiff]

Thank you Ann, that's really interesting. I do wish they would check their facts though, I wonder where they get them from. There are several mistakes, for instance, it says that Dorothea was born in 1899 on a farm. She was actually born 23/7/1901 and her name wasn't even Dorothea then Although she was brought up on a farm she wasn't born there. It also says that Willoughby Leech died in 1930, he actually died on 23/7/1933. It also says that she married Ronald Joseph Sullivan and they had 4 children. I don't believe that they actually married and she had 3 children with Willoughby and 2 with Joseph. I have all these certs in front of me.
How accurate is Wikepedia supposed to be? Does anyone know please?

[annswabey]

I wouldn't rely on them for accuracy but as they quote the books as sources perhaps they might be worth getting hold of, although I wonder where the info for the books came from!

[Chrissie Smiff]

Yes Ann, I was thinking the same. Off to google the books now - thank you

[Chrissie Smiff]

I'm not too hot on Military records. Can anyone tell me please - if I requested a look up at Kew, might the was record tell me his date and place of birth?
Or, if as Ann says they may be at the MOD I suppose they wouldn't be at Kew?

[annswabey]

Chrissie

See my post 4. Army records will probably just give place and year of birth. Any surviving WW1 service records are now online at Ancestry and any later records won't be at Kew, they will be with the MOD.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Oh, sorry to be such a dunce Ann :o I only need a year and place of birth but it looks as though I'm out of luck then. I keep seeing where people have found military records at Kew with dates and places on. I wonder why they don't just look on Ancestry Or is that another silly question

[annswabey]

Ancestry just has WW1 Army records although some of these will include pre WW1 service documents. Anything earlier will be at Kew, but nothing any later.

[annswabey]

Did Stephen Morris consult the Nottingham Evening Post reports on the case when he wrote the book? ( I knew the basics of the case, being Nottingham born and bred myself!) There's a file at Kew on Dorothea I notice but I don't suppose this would have anything relevant on Mr Sullivan

[Chrissie Smiff]

I think Stephen Morris wrote most of the Nottingham Evening post reports Ann - I'm not sure. I know that my contact, through Stephen Morris, found me because of one of the reports some years ago. I wrote in and told them that they had a couple of facts down incorrectly. I told them who I was and my relationship and they passed my details to Stephen. He mentioned my letter to my Leech contact and he contacted me some time later. I have been helping ever since.
I doubt too if the file on Dorothea would have anything relevant on Mr Sullivan. I find it all very odd that he is quite definitely listed as Ronald Joseph on all the court proceedings etc but just Joseph on his military records (and his childrens births, though Dorothea registered them and possibly just called him Joseph).
If he was born in Nottinghamshire, and his age was acurate in 1935, there is only one birth that fits and it's a Joseph Smith Sullivan (odd second name).

[annswabey]

I meant the contemporary reports in the paper, not the recent ones! They may have had something on his background??

[Chrissie Smiff]

Ahhhhh I see what you mean. I will see what I can find in the local newspapers. Unfortunately my city card won't let me look, I have to go into a county library. So will have to wait until the weather improves