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1939 Identity Card Information (Registration)

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  • 1939 Identity Card Information (Registration)

    Has anyone had any success in obtaining information from the 1939 Registration?
    Steve.
    Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

  • #2
    I can still remember my ID card number!!! Remember that all those who had ID cards during the war had the same number on their NHS card until very recently, around 2002 when it was changed. May be wrong on that date as do not remember exact date but it was very recent.

    What are you hoping to gain from information? All I had on mine was name, number and address which changed 7 times during the war!

    Janet
    Last edited by Janet; 30-12-09, 09:59.

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    • #3
      Hi Janet,

      Your now showing your age !!! You can now request the information for decreased persons under the "freedon of information act" which can be requested from the NHS Information Centre.
      This infromation could be of interest for the "Marital status & Occupation" if changed from the 1911 census, I'm also to understand you can apply for all persons living a the same address (decreased only), so could be as good as a census return!.

      We now have a big gap before the release of the 1921 census due to the 100 year closure as this census will not be opened earier as 1911 was due to a different closure act, the next after that is the 1951............. by then I'll be my box.
      Steve.
      Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

      Comment


      • #4
        Steve,

        Don't even think about 2051 please!! I am not even sure about 2021! Yes, there is a gap for the census and yes I can see that the 1939 registration could be useful for areas of the country, but for the big cities and the smaller ones like Plymouth that were bombed to destruction, then you may be disappointed as people were bombed out of their houses never to return. Whole areas disappeared never mind streets. Also most people lived in rented accommodation in 1939 and would have changed addresses quite quickly anyway after the war. But yes there would be some advantage to many people.

        Definitely showing my age here, I keep making mistakes as I cannot see what I am writing!!! This is far too small for me! I did mean to say above that I changed my address 7 times in the war though I had forgotten the other 3 changes from1939 to 1942! My mother also changed address at least four times from 1939 to 1942 but then we lived in a war damaged city and no it was not London!!

        Janet
        Last edited by Janet; 30-12-09, 13:34.

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        • #5
          As it has only just been conceded that this information should be made available (thanks to Guy, one of our members) I doubt if the information is ACTUALLY available yet in real terms, nor has any cost been decided as far as I know. I have a feeling that it may turn out to be a lengtrhy and expensive process - you will have to prove that all the people are dead, for a start I THINK....

          This info will probably be of little or no use to me personally, as I was not yet born and I do know where my parents (and their parents) were, and who they were with, but no resource is a wasted resource and I am sure that registration info will be of use to someone!

          OC

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          • #6
            Anyone know what the 3-letter codes on the date stamps are? Is it the Register Office that authorised the new address or something? I haven't been able to find a list of the codes anywhere, even Genuki..... anyone know?

            The two on my Nan's card are BUA and ANA...

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            • #7
              The letter codes are supposed to denote districts.There are 4 letters in mine so number of letters will differ. Mine starts with WE and presumably stands for West (of) England. I am not sure what the number after the letters stands for as there are 3 numbers in the next batch on mine but I am sure this number will change. The final number and mine is 5 denotes the place within your family. Your father as head of the family was 1 and your mother 2 followed by children, the eldest being the first one at number 3 and as I was the third sibling I am number 5.

              The ID cards were issued, registering your address at the time in 1939 so that you could qualify for rations, free codliver oil, milk and orange juice for children under a certain age. The trouble was that in the heat of the war after 1940 when the blitzes started all over the UK then people were bombed out, went to live in the country, evacuated to so called safe areas and the address system rather got lost, especially in places like London, Plymouth, Coventry, Bristol where whole areas were gutted, and the whole administrative system broke down under the strain. However, in country districts there will not have been this same break up of the fabric of society so the address system will most probably be very good for those who lived in that sort of area. It was up to the person changing address to inform the authorities of the change, but when my mother was going from one bombed out area to another to be bombed again, with 3 young children and the whole city centre fire bombed, the last thing on her mind would be to inform the authorities of a change of address, and there would have been millions affected like that. Most people were in rented property so there was no having to sell a house to move, you just were there in the house one week and living somewhere else the next week.

              Janet
              Last edited by Janet; 31-12-09, 11:09.

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              • #8
                Before the demise of Traceline I was able to locate someone via their national registration number and get a message sent to them - they'd been missing for 40 years and were re-united with their family.

                This was because the National Registration Number became their National Health Number and other members of the family still had their numbers - numbers were allocated to the parents and then each child by age so we knew the missing number.

                Unfortunately Traceline was abolished when their department was transferred to another Government entity.



                Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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                • #9
                  According to the article in Practical Family History magazine - with a photo of Guy - it will only apply to people that are deceased, not to those who are still alive. And there is no indication as to when the information will be released.
                  Joy

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                  • #10
                    Yes I read that article yesterday.

                    It will still be a good resource lets hope it will be available soon.

                    The only query I have is how will they know they are deceased or do we have to prove it before we can get access to individual Identity Card Information!

                    If they are going to cross reference themselves, to do that they'd have to digitise and it will take a long long time and to be honest how are they going to do that, people changing names, moving countries etc etc!!! Sounds like thats a stumbling block already proof of death.

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                    • #11
                      Well I suppose, being scrupulously fair, they will need time to decide on an access policy, a price and so on.

                      Does anyone know where/how these records are stored?

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        It says that it is held by the National Health Service Information Centre which "was due to hold a meeting to consider its response, which may include an appeal against the decision as PFH went to press".
                        Joy

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                        • #13
                          As all the original ID numbers were turned into NHS numbers then it makes sense that the NHS has it in their stores and we know how sticky that can be accesing information from the NHS!

                          Janet

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                          • #14
                            I know of another three people who have been supplied information from the 1939 National Registration.
                            The type of information varies (according to how one phrases the request).
                            I asked for and received the following
                            http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/census/1939NatReg.htm

                            It is also possible to request information from the NHS Central Register.
                            This is the standard NHS database by requesting information from that the address can be ascertained and used in a follow-up 1939 National Registration request.

                            It has been stated that you have to prove a person is dead to receive the information. Not so, the NHS database shows them who is alive and who is dead.
                            A few (in relative terms) will slip through, those who emigrated for instance but in most cases there should be no problem.

                            Now is actually a good time to request information, no plans have been formalised and the information is for the time being available free.
                            Eventually the NHS IC will formulate a plan and start charging.

                            Don’t worry about confusion over addresses; the system was always updated, without the updates the population would have starved as the registration was used for ration books until 1952.
                            It was also used to re-unite the evacuees with their parents.

                            By the way the NHS IC decided not to appeal the Information Commissioner’s decision.
                            Cheers
                            Guy
                            Guy passed away October 2022

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                            • #15
                              Thank you, Guy.
                              Joy

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                              • #16
                                Thanks Guy.

                                I think I mentioned 'proof of death'. I didn't say they'd need it but how would they confirm it if that was the condition of access. If the NHS files are cross indexed and that is enough for 'them' for us to access the information all well and good but we all know their records aren't the most accurate but they wouldn't admit that anyway.

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks Guy for the clarifications.

                                  Janet

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                                  • #18
                                    That's interesting, thankyou Guy.

                                    I'm not clear though - did you request details by name, or by address, or by NR number?

                                    It occurred to me, thinking about all this today, that I actually do have my late parents' National Identity cards in my possession so I know their ID numbers. My father served in WW2, part of this time overseas of course. Would the link ration cards to identity cards apply to servicemen on active duty?

                                    OC

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                                    • #19
                                      I don't think one should rely too much on the information. People were registered where they happened to be at a particular time, and my elder sister was visiting her future parents-in-law, so she had a different place code and family number to me, and has 1 as the final digit, signifying she was head of the family! I, on the other hand, had 4 signifying I was the second child (my parents were 1 and 2, and my other sister 3) while I was actually the third child. I think that the first letter of the place code was the same as the placename.

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                                      • #20
                                        I requested information about people at an address, after the decision I made a request for an individual giving her married name and maiden name (just to see if it could be done).
                                        The sucess of both shows one could use either address (useful to gain information about other possible relations) or individual (useful to add information including an unknown address).

                                        Others have asked using NHS number, and name & address.
                                        Cheers
                                        Guy
                                        Guy passed away October 2022

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