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Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 17:36
Is it possible to find records of people in the first world war please? I am hoping to find an approximate birth date.
He didn't die in the war - but he was at the front.
His name was Ronald Joseph Sullivan.
I've just realised what a silly question this probably is - I know nothing else about him and there were no doubt several with this name.

maggie_4_7
28-12-09, 17:41
Chrissie

There are the medal and service records on Ancestry for WWI.

Actually I just had a quick look and there isn't anyone called Ronald Joseph Sullivan that I can see, lots of 'pick your own first name' Joseph Sullivans though.

What county would he have lived/been from.

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 17:43
OH thank you Maggie - wonder if I will be able to view with the basic package? I'll go and have a look.

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 17:45
OH yes - I can view them - thanks again Maggie

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 17:46
Oh piffle - think I may have found him but it doesn't give any indication of age or anything.

maggie_4_7
28-12-09, 18:03
Put the link up Chrissie.

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 18:18
This is it Maggie. It's the medal section. I can't find him under the Service Records though.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A001505-02393&fn=Ronald+J&ln=Sullivan&st=r&ssrc=&pid=4022523

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 18:23
I've discovered that he was born about 1995/1996 but I can't find a birth record. There is an incoming passenger list for a Ronald J Sullivan but I can't view it. So I don't know where he was coming from. I also know that he was still alive in 1936. Oh, and the death in 1952 is his 18 year old son.

Christine in Herts
28-12-09, 18:32
I've discovered that he was born about 1995/1996 but I can't find a birth record. There is an incoming passenger list for a Ronald J Sullivan but I can't view it. So I don't know where he was coming from. I also know that he was still alive in 1936. Oh, and the death in 1952 is his 18 year old son.

That particular RJS is only 32 in April 1949. He was an international civil servant based in Canada, visiting London.

Christine

Chrissie Smiff
28-12-09, 18:36
Oh thank you Christine. That's one less then lol

SueNSW
29-12-09, 02:02
Chrissie - this is very far from an exact science - but here goes anyway

The medal card for Ronald J Sullivan gives a RWF number of 77453 - this relatively high number suggests he probably enlisted quite late in the war - looking at casualties with similar numbers most seem to have died late in 1918 - eg Aug/Sep/Oct and some appear to be around 18/19

This suggests they were possibly conscripted when they reached 18 - giving birthdates of 1899/1900. This Ronald J Sullivan could then be Ronald James Sullivan - reg Bedwelty Monmouthshire 3/4 1899

If you are 100% with the middle name Joseph and the slightly earlier birth year you gave - this obviously isn't your man - but if there is any doubt - he might be worth checking out further

Good Luck
Sue

Chrissie Smiff
29-12-09, 10:12
Thank you Sue, that's very helpful. I don't think I'm going to be able to find him on the scant knowledge that I have. All I know is that in 1935 he was 39 years old and he served as a medical orderly/ stretcher bearer at the front. He got the military medal for rescuing an officer under fire. There are no relevant births showing, so unless he was born in Scotland I think he may have been born abroad or something.
Not to worry - I shall approach it from a different angle.
Thanks everyone for your help.

Christine in Herts
29-12-09, 13:19
Thank you Sue, that's very helpful. I don't think I'm going to be able to find him on the scant knowledge that I have. All I know is that in 1935 he was 39 years old and he served as a medical orderly/ stretcher bearer at the front. He got the military medal for rescuing an officer under fire. There are no relevant births showing, so unless he was born in Scotland I think he may have been born abroad or something.
Not to worry - I shall approach it from a different angle.
Thanks everyone for your help.

Where was he serving "at the front" in 1935? I can only think of the Spanish Civil War - but the general Wikipedia says

The Spanish Civil War was a major conflict that devastated Spain from 17 July 1936 to 1 April 1939.
This needs adding to our Timeline, too.

Christine

Christine in Herts
29-12-09, 13:24
Was there any connection between your man and Ada Louise BAGULEY (and Lawrence Frederick BAGULEY)?

If so then the first para of Gazette Issue 34404 published on the 4 June 1937. Page 63 of 90 might be of interest:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/34404/pages/3633

Edit: I've just had a look in the TDA and found that this Will appears to have been part of something seriously odd. Amongst a series of articles, The Times, Thursday, Feb 27, 1936; pg. 4; Issue 47309; col C indicates that
Death In A Home Sullivan Found Not Guilty, Judge's Direction To The Jury
"The witness agreed ... that Sullivan was a man of first-class character, and said he believed he gained the Military Medal for conspicuous bravery in rescuing a wounded officer."

Christine

Chrissie Smiff
29-12-09, 13:38
Thanks Christine. No, I took it to mean the first world war, as the details were printed about him in 1935.
Yes, that's the same man Christine - living with 'Nurse' Waddingham before her execution. I will take a look at the link - thanks again.

p.s. Oh, I thought the link would be about the trial. So you probably don't know what I'm talking about - sorry. Yes, that is him though.

maggie_4_7
29-12-09, 13:45
Nurse Waddingham's execution!!!

Blimey have you found a scandal Chrissie?

Wish I could find a few in my lot.

maggie_4_7
29-12-09, 13:55
Thank you Sue, that's very helpful. I don't think I'm going to be able to find him on the scant knowledge that I have. All I know is that in 1935 he was 39 years old and he served as a medical orderly/ stretcher bearer at the front. He got the military medal for rescuing an officer under fire. There are no relevant births showing, so unless he was born in Scotland I think he may have been born abroad or something.
Not to worry - I shall approach it from a different angle.
Thanks everyone for your help.

I don't know an awful lot about medal cards but I would think that the Military Medal would be on there and its not only the Victory and the British. Although having said that my grandfather had two medal cards because he served in two regiments.

Christine in Herts
29-12-09, 14:00
The Times articles are about the trial... in detail, with transcriptions of the evidence.

Christine

Chrissie Smiff
29-12-09, 18:11
Thanks Maggie - I'll take another look.

Yes, thank you Christine, I was trying to find out what happened to him and his children. I am only related to the Waddinghams by marriage but a man that I am helping is more closely related.

Blackberry
29-12-09, 18:44
There would be a separate card for the Military Medal, but these are not on Ancestry. Try searching on the National Archives site under ref WO 372/23.

If he was awarded the MM, it would have been listed in the London Gazette, but they're not always easy to find, as the Military Medal heading is often not on the same page as the name you're searching for.

Chrissie Smiff
29-12-09, 19:47
Thank you Blackberry - I will take a look.

WendyP
30-12-09, 16:16
Hi

Have not thought abt ordering his marriage cert to see who his father was that way then we may find him in the early census.

Chrissie Smiff
30-12-09, 16:55
Unfortunately Wendy he didn't marry the lady that I know about, the one who had two children with him.

Durham Lady
30-12-09, 18:13
Chrissie if there's something at the Archives I know Fi goes often and I'm sure she'd do a search for you and order what you needed.

WendyP
30-12-09, 18:30
Hi

I dare say you've looked, but I did check the 1911 and I don't see a Ronald Sullivan with varients and a 5 year range of birth year in England. There is a Ronald Sullivan in Wales bn 1900. But not much more.

Chrissie Smiff
30-12-09, 22:13
Thanks for the idea Daphne :)

Thank you for your efforts Wendy - I can't see him either. On the childrens birth certs it just says Joseph Sullivan - but all the official trial documents say Ronald Joseph and so does the book I have.

Rachandgarry
30-12-09, 22:49
Does his medal card tell you what division/battalion he was with? I wonder if once you have that info, it would be possible to get some more specific information about them which might include more about him...?

Chrissie Smiff
31-12-09, 10:04
Nurse Waddingham's execution!!!

Blimey have you found a scandal Chrissie?

Wish I could find a few in my lot.

Sorry Maggie I've only just noticed this message. No, I've known about it since I was a small child :)

Chrissie Smiff
31-12-09, 10:05
That medal card turned out to be the wrong one I think Rachandgarry.

maggie_4_7
31-12-09, 10:18
Sorry Maggie I've only just noticed this message. No, I've known about it since I was a small child :)

I've been having a read on the internet the last couple of days, its not a case I knew a lot about and I know about a lot of murder cases as its my hobby :happy8se:

Interesting.

Chrissie you put that they had two children but on some reports it said she had four was two of them not Ronalds or is it just inaccurate reporting?

Chrissie Smiff
31-12-09, 11:19
It's quite a story Maggie - I had better e-mail you. Especially as murder is your hobby :Big Grin:

Just briefly about the children though (until I get time to e-mail you the full story) - she had 5 children, 3 with her husband and two later with Ronald Joseph Sullivan, who I don't believe she married. Though on their birth certs (which I have copies of) she states father Joseph (no Ronald) and gives her name as Sullivan. My aunt married her brother - hence my interest, and my contact (who I am trying to help) is a descendant of her husband.

maggie_4_7
31-12-09, 11:20
It's quite a story Maggie - I had better e-mail you. Especially as murder is your hobby :Big Grin:

Just briefly about the children though (until I get time to e-mail you the full story) - she had 5 children, 3 with her husband and two later with Ronald Joseph Sullivan, who I don't believe she married. Though on their birth certs (which I have copies of) she states father Joseph (no Ronald) and gives her name as Sullivan. My aunt married her brother - hence my interest, and my contact (who I am trying to help) is a descendant of her husband.

I await your email with anticipation. When you're ready though. :yes4lo:

Kit
08-01-10, 11:55
Can I be nosey Chrissie? If yes could you send me a copy of the email you sent Maggie?

Chrissie Smiff
08-01-10, 18:38
Of course Kit :) Could you PM me your e-mail addy.

Kit
09-01-10, 06:49
All sent thanks Chrissie.