Well, what do you know!

[ozgirl]

Tracing my mothers family, I linked in to a tree on ancestry which had a number of descendants in the States. As there were a couple of errors on the tree, I thought I had found another when one man was listed with multiple wives at the same time. Then I looked at where he was and the penny dropped - he was in Bountiful, Utah, and was obviously a Mormon who practiced polygamy.
His name was Henry Rampton, and there is quite a bit about him on the web.

However I do wonder how he managed to persuade his 40 year old wife that he should marry an 18 year old!:xmas_biggrin:

Linda

[Janet in Yorkshire]

As the main objective of polygamy was to produce as many offspring as possible, in as short a time as possible, perhaps she felt "relieved!":xmas_biggrin:

Jay

[Uncle John]

When was this? Polygamy was outlawed by the LDS some time in the late 19th. century.

[ozgirl]

He was born in Hampshire in 1829 , converted to Mormonism about 1850 and went out to the states in 1854. He married his last wife in 1862. I think he was prosecuted and spent some time in jail for polygamy. He died in 1903, outlived by his two wives. Oh and he had a total of 17 children.

Linda

[DiD]

Would suggest you read "The Nineteenth Wife" by David Ebershoff. I don't think she was persuaded!
Di

[Blackberry]

I seem to be related to this bloke who appears to be quite a famous Mormon. People go on pilgrimages to his Herefordshire pond, lol.

[maggie_4_7]

:xmas_biggrin:

[Sylvia C]

There is a sect of Mormonism that still practices polygamy.

There is a small town in eastern British Columbia called Bountiful, started by members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). It is associated with the main FLDS organization which is centered in Arizona, Texas and Utah. Joseph Smith, the founder of the original Church of Christ from whom this and almost a hundred other Mormon denominations have their origins, taught that the only way for a man to attain the highest of three levels of Heaven after death is to be married to at least three wives and to have many children. The only way for a woman to reach the same level is on the specific invitation of her husband.

Since roughly equal numbers of girl and boy babies are born into the group, they are faced with a surplus of male youth. Typically in the FLDS movement, most young men are expelled from the group during their teenage years. Thye are now often called the "Lost Boys". There are strong indications that girls as young as 13 are required to become the "celestial wives" (a.k.a. sister wives") of men who are often much older.

The other aspect of FLDS is that children are not educated much past the age of 13 ............ so both boys and girls are basically uneducated.

There has been much effort over the last few years to prosecute the main men in Bountiful ....... it is now actually a divided community as the Head of the FLDS movement (Warren Jeffs) removed the "bishop" of Bountiful and replaced him with someone else. Half the population of ca 1,000 stayed with the old bishop and half with the new ...... they seem to exist side-by-side, but without communication. The original "bishop" of Bountiful is said to have 26 wives and at least 118 children.

Many of the "wives" have been brought into Canada from the US communities, many of them have been in their late teens and have married men in their 50s. They then proceed to have lots of children ............ which they register and are then legally allowed to claim family benefits.

The problem in Canada is that the right to practise your religion is enshrined in the Cahrter of Rights ...................... it then becomes a legal issue as to whether prosecuting someone for practising polygamy when it is a central part of his religion becomes intolerance and persecution.

Of course, answering this question also has applications to other religions that would practise polygamy, as in some of the Muslim ones.

The two leaders of the sect in Bountiful were both arrested last January, and each was charged with one count of polygamy. The charges have in fact since been stayed ........ because the province's then-Attorney-General had cnsulted 3 special prosecutors in an attempt to find one who would say a case could be successfully prosecuted, and that has been deened wrong. Even if they had gone to court, any sentence would have been appealed at all levels of the justice system right up to the Supreme Court of Canada.



sylvia

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sylvia

That's interesting, thankyou.

Orthodox Jews were allowed to practice polygamy - up to four wives. BUT and the big BUT was - they must be able to support all four wives and children in a proper manner. The Rabbinical council no longer approves polygamy.

What amazes me most is the stupid women who agree to this, although as you say, they are young teenagers mostly.

OC

[jenoco]

Sylvia

What amazes me most is the stupid women who agree to this, although as you say, they are young teenagers mostly.

OC

From reports you hear, I don't think the young girls have much of an option and once married, it's almost impossible for them to leave. As Sylvia said, the government has tried to prosecute, but has been unsuccessful.

[Sylvia C]

The biggest kerfuffle in Bountiful was last year

............. two of the young women who had been brought north to marry older men, and who had produced several children ............... moved in TOGETHER.

I think they now live together in a neighbouring town ................. and are legally married. Gay marriages are legal in Canada.


The young girls are raised to expect to get married to whoever the "bishop" decides, and there seems to be little dissent. It is what they are expected to do, and they are raised to obey

........ this is why it was so astounding when that young woman was brave enough to give evidence in the case in the US last year (or the year before?) that resulted in Warren Jeffs being found guilty of statutory rape, because he had forced this girl to marry her cousin when she was 14.


The other thing that could be pursued would be charges of statutory rape, sexual exploitation, or child cruelty ............... if it could be proved that any girl was under the age of 16 (legal age here) when the man had intercourse with her.

The law in Canada is that any man who has sex with a girl under the age of 16, and who is more than 2 years older than her, is automatically guilty.

BUT it is difficult to prove that ...... the girls typically don't have ID, and if they swear they were over 16, then the authorities hands are tied

That seemingly is what happened after the police etc raided the compound down in Texas. They have had to release all the children back to their mothers because it could not be proved that any of the mothers had been below the legal age when a child was born.



OC ......... I think the biggest fear over here is mainly with Muslims who also practise polygamy, and could demand their rights if a court case results in saying that the Constituion guarantees the right of religious freedom, thus the law against polygamy is ruled illegal because it breaks that right.


If you are interested in reading more, especially from the BC point of view, go to Secret World of Polygamy https://www.canada.com/vancouversun/...amy/index.html


sylvia

[Olde Crone Holden]

I don't really understand, Sylvia.

We have total religious freedom here in the UK, but polygamy is still against the law. Sure, you can "marry" 50 people if you like but the law won't recognise 49 of them as a legal spouse, and therefore no benefits for them.

The right to practice one's religion can never over rule the law of the land, surely, otherwise there are all kinds of unsavoury so-called religions which could flourish.

OC

[Sylvia C]

But the extra "spouses" could apply for welfare payments in their own right, and for child support for their children.


In fact, any charges against these men for practising polygamy, which is illegal in Canada, would be defended by them as their right of freedom to practise their religion. As this is enshrined in the Constitution, then it would automatically mean a challenge to the Constitution, which would have to go to the highest court in the land (the Supreme Court of Canada).


and legal experts are tied on which side would win!


The Criminal Code (Section 293) says: "Everyone who practises or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practise or enter into any form of polygamy or any kind of conjugal union with more than one person at the same time, whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage or celebrates, assists or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a relationship mentioned [above] is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

Winston Blackmore, one of the accused, wants polygamy legalized. He wants the court to declare the law unconstitutional and an over-reaching limit on his right to practise his religion.

Interestingly, that Criminal Code section used to also include a specific reference to Mormons and spiritual marriage (which is what they call it) ............. it was amended in 1947 as a result of pressure by Warren Blackmore's uncle, who was then a federal MP. He was also a Mormon, but only had one wife ............... but he did pressure for the amendment to the Code to remove prosecution for toher Mormons.




sylvia