Did he die at Sea ?

[Guest]

Have asked about this before but hoping somebody new may spot something

can anybody help with a Death please

Charles George Macks a Diver
not sure where born although there is a Charles George Mack baptism for 1858 in Camden ??

He is supposed to have married a Miriam Rebecca Gutantag (Rose) born 1870 Mile End

1911 shows a Minnie Macks aged 35, married 7 years a Widow, Cap Finisher with her Son Charles Macks age 3 born in Hackney

on her Death Cert in which her Son Charles is the informant it says she was the Widow of a Charles George Macks a Diver

Have given up for now finding the Marriage and her Sons Birth but would like to find the Fathers Death
He must have died after 1901 as she is single then and before 1911 obviously.
Any ideas please ? have searched the overseas deaths

[Christine in Herts]

There's a birth reg for Charles George:
1858q3 St Giles

Christine

[Guest]

is there ?? oh how did I miss that thanks very much

[Teresa from the Bay]

Is this the birth record for their son Charles?

Name: Charles Frederick Mack
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: St Olave Bermondsey (1902-1913)
County: London
Volume: 1d

[Guest]

h Teresa and thanks I did look at that but wondered about the Frederick bit ??? thought he would have the same as his Father ??

[Christine in Herts]

h Teresa and thanks I did look at that but wondered about the Frederick bit ??? thought he would have the same as his Father ??

Might have father's first name, but a second name from further back on mother's or father's side - e.g. bride's father's name?

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi - there is this marriage for a Miriam but different surname -
MACK Charles Frederick London City 1c 119
Samuelson Miriam London C. 1c 119
Marriages Dec 1883

[Christine in Herts]

Those surnames do suggest that the marriages may not have been in churches. Register Offices, perhaps, or even Synagogues. That could also explain why some expected records don't appear in the LMA material.

Christine

[naomiatt]

Hi Christine - I wondered if Miriam was Jewish - well, definitely Miriam Rebecca born 1870
and Minnie is common as well...and maybe Charles Mack.....

Charles Frederick Mack from Prussia naturalised in Feb, 1889 as per the National Archives

A Charles Frederick Mack died in Brighton, February, 1908 (Grand Hotel) formerly of the Great Central Hotel in Marylebone and of 32 Bury Street as per The London Gazette

Val - "He is supposed to have married a Miriam Rebecca Gutantag (Rose)" - do you think this is definitely the correct wife?

[Guest]

thanks for your help
Miriam was Jewish Naomi her surname was Guttentag but the family changed it to Rose ,she isnt married in 1901 but at home with her parents as single
which is why I guessed if she did marry it must have been after 1901 and as she is a widow in 1911 then before that ??
I have found a likely marriage for Charles Junior in 1932 Bethnal Green so am looking at those records now going to send for the marriage cert maybe it will tell me more ??? if its the right one of course ???

[naomiatt]

Hi Val - there are some Jewish databases that have some marriage records...
I'll have a look...but, do you think Charles was Jewish? Does it look like Charles junior married a Jewish name?

[Guest]

thats very kind Naomi but I have a horrible feeling they never married ?

[naomiatt]

Well....I think Charles Frederick Mack was Jewish...if your Charles George is related to him/same man? is hard to say, unless it looks like Charles junior married a Jewish lady?? that would help! ....did 'Rose' have other siblings showing on the 1901? Many Jewish couples didn't marry in a civil sense....if Charles wasn't Jewish, they wouldn't have married in a synagogue unless he converted..
There are some Mack and Macks in the JCRUK databases;
JewishGen UK Database

[Guest]

hi she is with her parents a brother John and a niece Annie in 1901
- Ancestry.co.uk
this is her family

[Guest]

if I have the right son he married a Gladys Kelsey ??? not sure if thats a Jewish name or not ?
but if it should be Charles Frederick ?? well shall look into him too then
thanks very much for helping much appreciated

[naomiatt]

hi she is with her parents a brother John and a niece Annie in 1901
- Ancestry.co.uk
this is her family

Hi - It won't let me open that link - is the surname spelt as Guttentag?
I've found three Jewish G burials but they're in the North of England..

[naomiatt]

if I have the right son he married a Gladys Kelsey ??? not sure if thats a Jewish name or not ?
but if it should be Charles Frederick ?? well shall look into him too then
thanks very much for helping much appreciated

Hi - no, Gladys doesn't sound like she's Jewish...

I just wonder if Miriam from 1870 is not the right one?
There is this for example -
Births Dec 1883 Guttentag Miriam Hackney 1b 452

[naomiatt]

Is this Miriam?
Deaths Jun 1933
Macks Miriam R 62 Stepney 1c 201
If so, she must be the one from 1870 birth.....

What's the full name and date of death on her cert? She might have had a Jewish burial...if she did, there will be records...

[Guest]

Thats her Brothers Daughter Naomi , and I do have all the relevent certs so sure its the right Miriam she called herself Minnie and it does say maker of caps by her Brother Johns name

[Guest]

it says Miriam Rebecca Macks otherwise known as Minnie Mack on her death cert