german translation help please

[kylejustin]

i have finally got my marriage from poland. 3 months and 2 trys later, it arrived this arvo in the posties hands! only prob is it's in german! no probs, i got way more info than i thought i was getting! i thought it would be both parties names, signatures and the date, lucky if i got witts.

well i got both sets of parents, and a feeling of either the birthplace or maybe residence of each party? anyway, im posting the images, if anyone can help deciper the german, it would be great!!





married on 22 november 1846, st peter's cathedral, poznan. i know the groom is johann sigismund dittmann, living in? kozmin. his parents are christian sigismund dittmann and johanna elizabeth formerly schulz.
the bride is sophia frederike elizabeth lukke. her parents are wilhelm lukke of jundsberg? and frederike louise formerly wegner.

that's all i can make out though. can anyone help?

[Guest]

what I want to know is how did you manage to get it ??? you lucky thing

[kylejustin]

oh val, i was so sure i wasnt going to get it at all! i got it from the index on the poznan marriages project. i then contacted the polish archives in posen, and a month later, they sent me a letter saying i needed to do a bank transfer, and then they would send the marriage. well, the first transfer back fired!! that was september. last month i did it again, with a senior bank member. the transfer went through like last time, but this time it stuck! i was so over the moon. now i just need to get it translated so when i give a copy to grandma for xmas, she can read it!!

[Lindsay]

Yes, Kyle, where did you start??

Every so often I look at my German/Polish great grandfather then put him away again (in a manner of speaking!)

[kylejustin]

i dont blame you lindsay. this branch has always been the most troublesome. just 'germany' given as birthplace on death certs, and no parents names known.
the only reason i know where they were from, is their childrens births require age, occupation and birthplace, as well as where and when married, and also how many kids, ages or whether alive. so happy ive made some head way. and i will prob dream it isnt real tonight!

[Guest]

you have given me hope now I know the birth date of my Great Great Grandfather so maybe just maybe I will get lucky.

[congletonian]

translation

Hello Kyle

had a quick look at your cert.Think the placenames are Kozmin and Landsberg.
the bottom part has columns for "have you been married before and whether either of you are in the care of parents or guardians."There is something written in that column but it's quite had to read.I'll have another look and get back to you .

Liz

[kylejustin]

thanx for the look over congletonian. i know he is from kozmin, though whether he was born there is another point. i googled jundsberg, and got not much. but landsberg, sounds more successful, and correct!

val, you will find it one day. dont ever give up. it was pure curiosity that led me to the marriages project. if i never looked there, i would never have found this.
it may be you will have to wait a while, my family waited literally a hundred years. hopefully you wont be waiting that long!

[kylejustin]

landsberg if in poland, could be either gorowo ilaweckie in north eastern poland, or more likely gorzow wielkopolski, in the poznan area.

[Christine in Herts]

Looking at the supposed "Landsberg", the first letter doesn't look much like the other examples of upper-case L in the record - and the end vowel looks more like a u. On the other hand, Landsberg seems a very plausible place name, compared with, say, Jandsburg... Just done some googling and there is a place in German-Poland called Vandsburg (Wiecbork). It's quite a long way north of Poznan - and just a bit to the east.

Incidentally, I think the bride's name is spelt with an s - Elisabeth (see her mother's "Louise"). Her mother's maiden name - the vowel could be e/i - it doesn't look like other examples of a, and is probably not o/u.

Easter was on 12 Apr in 1846 - the Banns were called 8/15/22 November (22nd, 23rd & 24th Sundays after Trinity).

[kylejustin]

agreed with the 's' in elisabeth. i guess i get used to english spellings. and the 3rd last column is the date of banns? absolutely fascinating. i googled 'wegner' before, it is a derivative of 'wagner' like richard wagner, the composer for the bavarian royal family, though i doubt there is a connection.

it does look like jandsburg, but vandsburg or landsburg is more plausible.

[Chr1s]

Incidentally, I think the bride's name is spelt with an s - Elisabeth (see her mother's "Louise"). Her mother's maiden name - the vowel could be e/i - it doesn't look like other examples of a, and is probably not o/u.

It looks to me like the groom's mother was Johanna Elisabeth, but the bride was Sophie Friederike Elizabeth Lukke. Look at the s in Sigismund and Christian.
It's the spelling of Louise that looks odd to me. The spelling Louize does exist, now, but I don't know about then. :xmas_confused:

[Christine in Herts]

I think the scribe must have been switching randomly between long and short "s" - there's a very clear "Elisabeth" for the groom's mother.

However, the z-shape in the written numbers for the date (zwei und zwanzig∫ten... with long-s), do not have high upstrokes.

Christine

[congletonian]

translation

Hello again
another go at translation of your certificate


Church register

Doc 1
Column 1
Year and day of the marriage
column 2
Name of the priest who conducts the ceremony
column 3
Forenames and family names of the couple,place of residence,also whether the marriage takes place in church or at home

in column 3 it is difficult to decipher some of the script but on Ancestry there is a list of old german occupations (in german) so this may be useful if we can decipher the relevant words.You already have the names of the couple and their parents and where they live.

Doc 2

column 1
Whether they have been married before and whether they are still in the care of their parents and guardians.

column2/3
age of the bridegroom and bride

column 4/5
religion of bridegroom and bride

column 6
Consent of parents and guardians

column 7
date of banns

column8
date of requested dispensation of banns(assume as in special licence)

column 9
remarks

Struggling to decipher what is in column 1 so I can translate it.I thought it might start both are free to marry but I want to read the rest!Also what is written in column 6 under consent .I used to read old german script at university but I think I'm out of practice! I'll keep looking and get back to you if I can work it out.It would be nice for your grandmother to have a full translation maybe someone can decipher the script?:xmas_yes:

Liz

[Christine in Herts]

Struggling to decipher what is in column 1 so I can translate it.I thought it might start both are free to marry but I want to read the rest!

Could be something that looks like:

Beide sind frei
ladrig; Balgen
##aft ander an
far Eltern ##f
#oren ändern;
B## ##aft ###f an
far ###nenarssaft

Clearly some of those letter-groups don't work, so this is work-in-progress. Where there are multiple appearances of what looks like the same word, I've used matching colours.

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

Also what is written in column 6 under consent

Possibly - work-in-progress, again:

Consons ### war
unun ###aftlingen
Gerüft für din
Braut vom 15tn
Juni er

Again - some very iffy guesses.

Christine

[Elizabeth Herts]

Christine, I think that it is "ledig" not "ladrig". "Ledig" means "unmarried, single".

[Delightful Dukkie]

Hello kylejustin
Landsberg an der Warte is a whole region which is now Poland. It is west of Berlin about a couple of hundred miles if that. Warthe is a main river. I'm very impressed with your research skills LOL I've received ziltz when i ask!! The document is badly written and i might be able to help. sending you a pm.

OOps East, of berlin..downunder east and west are confusing sorry

[Delightful Dukkie]

Possibly - work-in-progress, again:


Again - some very iffy guesses.

Christine

could it be auf

gehaftlingen?? geschaftlingen = apprentice shop worker?? ??

[Delightful Dukkie]

Christine, I think that it is "ledig" not "ladrig". "Ledig" means "unmarried, single".

,,,yes and would you say that it is mainly for men as women were "maiden" ie Jungfrau