Leics.Regiment - WW1 - Myer Tissman

[naomiatt]

Hi - Myer Tissman served as a Private - 235263 - with the Leics.Regiment in WW1.
He was awarded the Silver War Badge which I believe means that he was discharged early due to incapacity or wounds.
I've not been able to find anything about him....closest I could find was a Myer Tish in the 1911 census who was born in 1876 and living in Mile End.
I have found that most of the Tisman/Tishman's in the UK from 1885 plus, belong to my family. I've no idea who Myer is...if he is even related...but there's a good chance he might be!
Any ideas welcome.
Thanks.

[guybrush]

I'm not having much luck apart from the Medal Card on ancestry which I imagine you have.

A Myer Treisman marries in Stepney 1926 and a Myer Tishkosky marries in Manchester 1938. There's lots of Myer/Mayer/Meyer Tisseman/Tissiman/Tisserman's in the US censuses.

Sorry, I'm out of ideas. :(

[naomiatt]

Hi - thanks for looking - yes, I have a copy of the Medal Card - but I'll take a look at those marriages you mentioned - I had wondered if he went to the U.S...seems odd that there's nothing else on him in the UK.

[ajchambers8]

My Wild boys

Im also looking for info on someone from that regiment!
My great uncle William Samuel edmond Wild, son of William thomas Wild, there must be a story there as he served as Lance Corporal SAMUEL EDMOND WILD and WILLIAM WELLS, he won a boxing championship for his regiment whilst they were training in fermoy ireland and got to keep the belt for all time, which was sadly not to be long for him.

He had previously had sucess as a boxer in and around Homerton hackney as Bill Wild I would love to find a record or perhaps newspaper report regarding what was allegedly a promising career.

His army details are number 9458, "A" Company. 1st Bn., Leicestershire Regiment
he died age 25 on 15 September 1916 under enemy fire after going back for a friend entangled in barbed wire, no mans land. He is remembered with honour THIEPVAL MEMORIAL ....and in my heart along with his younger brother Ernest wild also perished during WW1 battle of arras.

I just wish i could find out more about these boys or at least see a picture of them and maybe one day learn why william served under an alias.

[ajchambers8]

PS
A lot of service records from ww1 I believe were fire damaged damaged during ww2, some were partially lost and some completely lost, I hope you are able to find something of use as they can be quite informative often offering clues such as next of kin, childrens names, addresses if your lucky!

Good luck and seasons greetings x

[naomiatt]

Hi - It's good to know that they probably knew each other! Yes, I know a lot of records were destroyed..sad isn't it. I did try the British Jewry Book of Honour as well - meant to list all servicemen and women from WW1 who were Jewish, but he's not in there and from what I can gather, there are quite a few who are not showing in the book.
Have you tried the Hackney Archives to try and find out more about 'Bill Wild'
Hackney Council - Archives and Local History I know there are lots of boxing sites around...my OH loves boxing and knows a fair bit about the bare knuckle days etc...I would imagine there's a forum about the old East End boxers.
Bombardier Billy Wells eastlondonhistory.com Are you connected to
Bombardier Billy Wells? There's also this site which covers early boxers;
Jimmy Wilde Professional Record Boxing

[ajchambers8]

Hi - It's good to know that they probably knew each other! Yes, I know a lot of records were destroyed..sad isn't it. I did try the British Jewry Book of Honour as well - meant to list all servicemen and women from WW1 who were Jewish, but he's not in there and from what I can gather, there are quite a few who are not showing in the book.
Have you tried the Hackney Archives to try and find out more about 'Bill Wild'
Hackney Council - Archives and Local History I know there are lots of boxing sites around...my OH loves boxing and knows a fair bit about the bare knuckle days etc...I would imagine there's a forum about the old East End boxers.
Bombardier Billy Wells eastlondonhistory.com Are you connected to
Bombardier Billy Wells? There's also this site which covers early boxers;
Jimmy Wilde Professional Record Boxing

Hi again Naomaitt,
it is lovely to know isnt it!... I have no idea where my William got the idea to use Wells as a name I certainly can find no family connection to that surname. We think he joined up slightly before the outbreak of ww1, as he would have been going through training to start and he was certainly bundled off to france quite early in proceedings and he trained in fermoy cork first....we wonder if perhaps william had been having a bit of trouble which lead him to using an alias, I suppose that kind of thing was quite common, boys often took up boxing too to keep them out of trouble, thats just me assuming though!

Ive not been able to find out anything about him boxing apart from being told by family, i wrote to the army website regarding boxing but still await a reply! I will check out the links youve given me!I did try hackney archives even checking hackney gazzette on microfilm for the period to no avail!

If your boy was jewish have you looked at bevis marks yet? Williams grandmother on his fathers side came from a sephardic jewish line, surnames being Ruby/ruber and Vanano being most recurring, they settled in bethnal green london and over time went from silk merchant to poor house!...we have that part of the tree possibly back to pisa.... I'm certainly a good old mixture and proud of it! hehe!

That aside, on line i found an account written by someone in the leics battalion, though they were in another company i think, I can send you that if you like, its mainly the parts leading up to what happened in sept 1916 as I was focucsing on when william died and the days leading up to that, I find it very moving. let me know, I can post here or possibly in pm


xxx

[naomiatt]

Hi - did you ever find a change of name in the London Gazette?
Did he have two lots of documents for WW1 with the different names?
I wonder if he 'borrowed' the name from Billy Wells the boxer?? At first I thought it was your William, but as you'll see from the site, the year of death wouldn't match up...unless they were related to that family??

Yes, I've looked in to all sorts for Myer...my Tisman/Tishman were Ashkenazi...you've done heaps of research! It's great to go back so far in time....funnily enough, there has been a fair bit recently on JGen with regards to searches in Italy...if I can help on the Jewish side at all, I'd be happy to give ideas..I can read Hebrew...well, most of the time!...and can try and decipher gravestones or Hebrew Marriage Authorisations etc

It would be nice to read the document on the regiment...if it's not easy to put on here, I'll send you a pm with my e mail.

[ajchambers8]

Hi - did you ever find a change of name in the London Gazette?
Did he have two lots of documents for WW1 with the different names?
I wonder if he 'borrowed' the name from Billy Wells the boxer?? At first I thought it was your William, but as you'll see from the site, the year of death wouldn't match up...unless they were related to that family??

Yes, I've looked in to all sorts for Myer...my Tisman/Tishman were Ashkenazi...you've done heaps of research! It's great to go back so far in time....funnily enough, there has been a fair bit recently on JGen with regards to searches in Italy...if I can help on the Jewish side at all, I'd be happy to give ideas..I can read Hebrew...well, most of the time!...and can try and decipher gravestones or Hebrew Marriage Authorisations etc

It would be nice to read the document on the regiment...if it's not easy to put on here, I'll send you a pm with my e mail.

To be honest i cant find his war papers at all... burnt out like I mentioned previously or distroyed...the info I got was from the commonwealth war graves website, and family knew that he hAD used the other name, just not why he did!....

I shall hav to look up yhe exact details of my Jewish ancestors and tell you where I am stumped (which I naturally enough am!)..... I am told that william would have been fighting in and around the Hackney circuit up until 1914 when he jouned up... how long before that he would have started is anyones guess, he was based at 21 church street homerton hackney where he lived with his family, and he was raised in homerton / hackney wick... I would be fascinated to find anything out !

I will try and post the account here for anyone else who may have an interest in that batallion, but am happy to email it to you too!

[ajchambers8]

an account of the leics regiment sept 1916

Here I have copied from online an account of what happened to William/samuel's battalion between july and November 1916, dates are shown in brackets for example (2/8) is 2nd August. There is a short account of what was going on, (15/9) 15th sept, the day William was killed and you will see that it mentions company 'A' advancing and being under heavey machine gunfire, you will also see it makes mention of 'strong wire' in front of the trench.

William was killed under enemy machine gun fire on the 15th of September 1916, going back to aid a friend who had been caught on some barbed wire.

He served under the alias of 'William Wells', service number 9458 for reasons I fear we shall never know, he is also recognised as 'samuel Edmond Wild' service number 9458.

He was a Lance Corporal of 'A' Co 1st Battalion Leicestershire regiment, 16th brigade, later from 1915 71st brigade but still in 6th division. They were originally based in Fermoy, Cork, Ireland.

The information I have used is based up on two records on the commonwealth war graves roll of honours pages and in both instances of Williams entries listed are his parents & their Homerton address at the time, the information on those pages was compiled using information from the family and other records from the time. I have also used his brothers memoirs to gain information about where he was stationed and thank 'Hilda' for setting me on the right path by letting me see her fathers memoirs.


THE LEICESTERSHIRE REGIMENT. THE SOMME – JULY-NOVEMBER 1916

1ST Battalion: (71st Brigade, 6th Division)

Entrained at Proven (2/8) arrived early next morning at Candas. During journey serious accident narrowly averted at Frévant. The rear carriages broke away while train climbing steep incline. They gathered speed as they rolled back downhill. Another train was due shortly and there was imminent danger of collision. A quick witted pointsman switched the carriages into a siding where they ran into the buffers. Seven men and five horses hurt.

Marched to billets at Beauval. To Léalvillers (4/8), Mailly-Maillet Wood (5/8). Relieved 2nd Grenadier Guards right sector in front of Beaumont-Hamel (14/8). Relieved and back to Mailly-Maillet Wood (19/8). To Louvencourt (27/8), Beauval (28/8), Flessells (29/8), Cardonette (6/9), Méricourt (7/9), Sandpit Camp area (8/9). Moved forward to front line (11/9). Began work carrying bombs and ammunition up to Trônes Wood (12/9). With 9th Norfolk formed up during night (14/9) on sunken Ginchy-Leuze Wood Road – battalion’s left close to village. At 5.50am (15/9) tank advanced to fire into enemy trenches. Attacked 6.20am – B and D companies advanced followed by C and A – immediate machine gun fire from enemy line. Held up by strong wire in front of trench leading from north west corner of The Quadrilateral. Withdrew to Maltz Horn Farm (17/9). To front line under orders of 16th Brigade (18/9). Returned to Maltz Horn Farm early morning (19/9). Upon arrival found no accommodation and moved on to billets at Ville-sur-Ancre. To Citadel Camp (22/9), Carnoy craters (24/9), reserve line (25/9), front line trenches east of Morval (26/9). Held Thunder Trench which was also occupied by the enemy. War Diary states: "Huns harassed all day by rifle grenades and bombs."

To billets near Guillemont (28/9), Carnoy craters (29/9), Sandpit Camp (30/9).

Casualties since (14/9) – 456. To camp south of Mametz (7/10), Bernafay Wood (8/10). Relieved 9th Suffolk in Needle Trench (15/10). Carrying parties to front line. B and D companies moved forward to Rainbow Trench (17/10). Relieved and via Bernafay Wood to Sandpit Camp (20/10). To Corbie (21/10). Entrained for Airaines (24/10) and from there to billets at Sorel-en-Vimeu and Wanel. Entrained at Pont-Remy for Béthune area (29/10).

...Let us never forget those who gave their precious lives for others, they left us a legacy & its our duty to find it and honour them....Gone, but NOT forgotten.
:xmas_no:

So so very sad

The 1st Battalion, The Leicestershire Regiment was based in Fermoy, Ireland on the outbreak of war on 4 Aug 1914 as part of 16th Brigade in 6th Division. The battalion was moved to Cambridge on 19 Aug. On 10 Sep 1914, the battalion landed in France at St Nazaire. It remained in France and Flanders for the duration. On 17 Nov 1915 it was reassigned to 71st Brigade but still in 6th Division. The battalion ended the war on Armistice day at Rue de Vaux, Bohain, France.

[naomiatt]

Hi - do both names appear in the Medal Rolls?
The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | World War One medal cards
Have you asked Hackney Archives who was living at 21 Church Street over the years..
not sure how early you have that address for....doesn't seem to show nowadays...I got a Church Crescent when I google mapped.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/lon-str.html

This is a good site as well;

http://deadpubs.co.uk/Whitechapel/Whitechapel.shtml

You might find something in here;

http://www.smallandspecial.org/

[ajchambers8]

I have the medals card under wells
lol church street has long gone!!!! its now existant in part as barnabas rd, i grew up and lived round there!!! the family lived in homerton right up til my parents moved away 9 years ago!

my partner will be here at the tomorrow for the weekend and he will check out the links with me, again thanks! so kind, all info appreciated! xxx

[annswabey]

Naomi

You need to know which battalion he was in before consulting e g War diaries to see what he was involved in. Only obtainable from Kew - the refs on the medal card apply to to the medal roll which will give his battalion.

[naomiatt]

Naomi

You need to know which battalion he was in before consulting e g War diaries to see what he was involved in. Only obtainable from Kew - the refs on the medal card apply to to the medal roll which will give his battalion.

Thanks Ann - I wondered if there would be two surnames showing for the same man.

[annswabey]

Naomi

I meant for your man. For the boxer, the battalion is known.

[naomiatt]

Naomi

I meant for your man. For the boxer, the battalion is known.

Sorry! Another form I have says 235263 then 2/4 - it was signed in
Lichfield, 13/6/1921.

The other says SWB F(?)/A/661 and something over 1 then slash 102
B24 Page 2866 Victory Medal and underneath that British Medal - same info.

[naomiatt]

"Williams grandmother on his fathers side came from a sephardic jewish line, surnames being Ruby/ruber and Vanano being most recurring, they settled in bethnal green london and over time went from silk merchant to poor house!...we have that part of the tree possibly back to pisa.... I'm certainly a good old mixture and proud of it! hehe!"

A good site to look at and to post to is
Sephardic SIG Sephardic genealogy Homepage
There is also
New Page 1

[ajchambers8]

Wow that first site for sephardic heritage is certainly going to require a lot of my attention, I shall recommend that on too as those im in touch with who descended through the vanano, Rubey/ruber/de mattos and hamiz vaz lines ...we are all over the world and found each other on ancestry and other on line places and formed our own email list adding each other and introducing those we meet to the circle, we all share info as and whne we find it, I'll email blast it to them all.. REALLY great stuff!...by the way being part of such an email group is a fantastic way to pool resources and share info with interested parties I really recommend it!

[annswabey]

Naomi

The SWB roll (at Kew) would probably give the dates of his service. The British and Victory ref on the medal card would lead to the Medal Roll (at Kew) to give his battalion.

[naomiatt]

Naomi

The SWB roll (at Kew) would probably give the dates of his service. The British and Victory ref on the medal card would lead to the Medal Roll (at Kew) to give his battalion.

Thanks Ann - can you find this info on line at Kew?