Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Opinions please!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Opinions please!

    I'm going round in circles with this:Big Grin:
    Charles and Martha Lizars were witnesses at a marriage in 1843 in St Botolph, Bishopsgate.

    I've found their marriage in 1838 Charles Lizars to Martha Underhays at St Leonard Shorditch (the bride's maiden name fits beautifully:Wink

    So they should be in the City/East London in 1841. There's a Charles Lizars here - Ancestry.co.uk (bottom of left hand page) in Allen St, Clerkenwell. And a Martha Lizars on the top of the next page on the right hand side still in Allen St but with 50 people between them! D'you think it's a coincidence or maybe they were living apart or was it a particularly crowded house (it's not an institution!) and they were listed separately? Are they my couple? And while you're looking can someone please confirm for me that Martha's age is 40 and not 60 as transcribed.

    To confuse things more there is the baptism of a Richard Nightingale Lizars to Charles and MARGARET in 1839 at St James Clerkenwell, right occupation for the father and the address is Allen St. It clearly says Margaret so it's not a mistranscription but there's no marriage to a Margaret and no trace of Margaret in 1841 .... are Martha and Margaret the same person?

    It looks as tho' Charles died in 1845 but I can find no further trace of Martha.

    I'm inclined to think that they are all the same couple but another opinion or two would help!

    Thanks for looking. Off to Tescos now :F - will check back later:Big Grin:
    Sue

  • #2
    They've got the pages in the wrong order if you look at the top of Charles it is 13 if you look at Martha's it is 14 so those two pages actually follow on.

    And on right side of Charles is Page 10 and on the left side of Martha is Page 11. Martha's age is 40.

    Its been unbound and flattened for scanning.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
      They've got the pages in the wrong order if you look at the top of Charles it is 13 if you look at Martha's it is 14 so those two pages actually follow on.

      And on right side of Charles is Page 10 and on the left side of Martha is Page 11. Martha's age is 40.

      Its been unbound and flattened for scanning.
      Hi Maggie
      Snap I had just spotted that the pages were out of order.
      Moggie

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Martha and Margaret are probably the same person but I've yet to discover her again somewhere I'm still looking but I have found this on my travels.

        - Ancestry.co.uk

        Richard's death.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
          They've got the pages in the wrong order if you look at the top of Charles it is 13 if you look at Martha's it is 14 so those two pages actually follow on.

          And on right side of Charles is Page 10 and on the left side of Martha is Page 11. Martha's age is 40.

          Its been unbound and flattened for scanning.


          Doh! It's obvious when you know! I just didn't think to check the page numbering......:emb: Thanks Maggie and Moggie :Big Grin:
          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            How do you know Charles died I can't find a death for him. I suppose if he died and Richard died perhaps she married again but I've looked for marriages for both Underhays and Lizars and couldn't find anything.

            Edit:

            I found a Charles Lizars death:-

            - Ancestry.co.uk

            Is this him? This one's 64 that would make him a lot older than Martha/Margaret.
            Last edited by Guest; 25-11-09, 17:04.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
              How do you know Charles died I can't find a death for him. I suppose if he died and Richard died perhaps she married again but I've looked for marriages for both Underhays and Lizars and couldn't find anything.

              Edit:

              I found a Charles Lizars death:-

              - Ancestry.co.uk

              Is this him? This one's 64 that would make him a lot older than Martha/Margaret.
              That's the burial I found - he was a "widow" when he married Martha and I've found a couple of "Lizars" marriages that could be his children from the previous marriage - - Ancestry.co.uk and - Ancestry.co.uk which I thought made the burial a possibility.
              Sue

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh right

                I tell you something that caught my eye because of the name Nightingale but dismissed it because of the timeframe and place but as you said Charles was married before and possibly a lot older it could be another daughter of the first marriage however its in South London and Charles is a Cordwainer. Of course it could be because thats where his married daughter lived with first husband.

                - Ancestry.co.uk

                Edit: I just realised a Cordwainer is a Shoe Maker! :Big Grin: still don't know if you think its connected though.
                Last edited by Guest; 25-11-09, 17:35.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd seen that too but it just seems to make things even more confusing as Marron (strange name!) is a widow and I can't find a Lizars/Nightingale marriage. To be honest I'm mainly interested in Martha Lizars nee Underhay(s) as she may be a way to chip at a brick wall - I've got sidetracked with the Lizars looking for clues!
                  Sue

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So you really just want to find what happened to Martha after 1841?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
                      So you really just want to find what happened to Martha after 1841?
                      Yes, sorry:emb:

                      If she's in the 1851 census it might give me a better idea of where she came from. Her marriage record has given me a fathers name (William) but I can't find a birth. It seems likely that she is the sister of my 3x gt grandmother Mary Underhay (married name Butcher) who died between 1841 and 1851. Both women state that they were b in Middlesex on 1841 but I'd rather have something more definite! Looking at IGI etc the Underhay name seems to originate in Devon....
                      Sue

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've just found a 2nd marriage for Martha! - Ancestry.co.uk
                        The fathers name mistranscribed as Underrays! Off to search for Martha Thomas in the 1851!!
                        Sue

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not sure if these help because not much info and mother's names are different and you've probably seen them.

                          - Ancestry.co.uk

                          - Ancestry.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Have you found it?

                            It could be this one mistranscribed as James but I think its Saml

                            - Ancestry.co.uk

                            So that baptism up there for Martha could be her

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
                              Not sure if these help because not much info and mother's names are different and you've probably seen them.

                              - Ancestry.co.uk

                              - Ancestry.co.uk


                              Interesting! No I hadn't seen them - I always forget the Pallots Baptisms as I've never found anything there!
                              I've just found Martha and 2nd husband here - Ancestry.co.uk He's mistranscribed as James but I'm sure it's them and she gives her pob as St Andrew Middlesex. I was about to check where that was when I saw your post!! Thankyou:smilee:
                              Sue

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by maggie_4_7 View Post
                                Have you found it?

                                It could be this one mistranscribed as James but I think its Saml

                                - Ancestry.co.uk

                                So that baptism up there for Martha could be her
                                SNAP:Big Grin::Big Grin:
                                Sue

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This might be Mary Underhay's baptism - Ancestry.co.uk
                                  Especially as she had a daughter Rebecca......
                                  Sue

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Do you think that's her? :smilee:

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I've checked that one and it doesn't give much more info - just an address (no occ) will check the others to be sure. There seem to be 4 children for William and Rebecca and one possible for William and Martha all with the surname spelt differently. I may be some time! Off to get comfy with the laptop now to trawl the Parish Records. At least I haven't got to get on a train to the Guildhall Library now :Big Grin::Big Grin:

                                      Thanks for all your help, Maggie. I'll let you know how I get on.
                                      Sue

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X