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The DoVE & MAGPIE flying back in new feathers?

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  • The DoVE & MAGPIE flying back in new feathers?

    I just spotted this after visiting the Devon FHS site (worrying about potential closure of Plymouth & West Devon RO)

    IPS - Digitisation project

    The DoVE/MAGPIE project is being replaced, apparently...

    From the Q&A section of the page...
    Q. What is the scope of the D&I project?
    It is the intention that the D&I project will include the following:

    * Completion of the digitisation of the outstanding registration records, namely births, marriages and deaths from 1837 to current date.
    * Creation of online indexes to these events.
    * Enhancements to the existing certificate ordering and production systems to enhance the overall customer experience.

    It, therefore, includes the completion of the previous DoVE and Magpie projects plus additional pieces of work to enhance the customer experience.

    Q. Does this mean that GRO will make certificate information available to view online?
    Current legislation in England and Wales does not permit the register entries (certificate information) to be made available online. However, the provision of online access to the indexes will provide greater accessibility and improved ease of use for those people undertaking family history research.

    Q. What information will be available in the new index?
    It is too early in the project to confirm what information will be available in the new index.

    Q. Will there be a charge for accessing the new index?
    No. The Registrar General has a statutory duty to make the index available to the public free of charge.
    Christine
    Last edited by Christine in Herts; 22-11-09, 19:17.
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

  • #2
    Very interesting. And a more businesslike approach, one hopes.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
      Very interesting. And a more businesslike approach, one hopes.
      Ahh! You didn't spot that pig flying by, then, UJ? :roll-eyes:

      To be fair, if you look at the rest of the info on the Q&A page, it does look as if they're making a reasonable attempt. It remains to be seen if they can succeed.

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        They've still got to go out to tender, so the cost may yet turn out to be a show-stopper. And they have to demonstrate cost savings in their day-to-day activity. The benefit to us will be purely incidental.
        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

        Comment


        • #5
          "enhance the customer experience"? What the **** does that mean? If they want to enhance my experience they will let me download the certs!!!!
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

          Comment


          • #6
            We had a thread about this somewhere quite recently, and as the poster said -

            Not today, not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, but SOMETIME.

            I agree with UJ, any extra convenience to us will be purely by accident!

            What I don't understand is this: If the original partners (Siemens) encountered overwhelming technical problems which caused them to dump this contract, then who is going to have better technology to complete this project?

            And Nell, yes, I practically puked when I read about "enhanced customer experience"...I'm ordering certs, fgs, not having (nor expecting) an experience!

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              What I don't understand is this: If the original partners (Siemens) encountered overwhelming technical problems which caused them to dump this contract, then who is going to have better technology to complete this project?
              It may be that other companies have the wherewithal not to be overwhelmed!

              Christine
              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

              Comment


              • #8
                Christine

                But if the technology IS available, why didn't Siemens use it?!

                From what I remember reading at the time, the problem was that hand-held scanners cannot cope effectively with a curve in a page, such as that encountered in old, thick, tightly bound ledgers and the digital production was of such poor quality as to be virtually useless.

                (I also want to know - what happened to the digital images they DID manage to capture, where are they and why can't we have access to them?)

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                  Christine

                  But if the technology IS available, why didn't Siemens use it?!

                  From what I remember reading at the time, the problem was that hand-held scanners cannot cope effectively with a curve in a page, such as that encountered in old, thick, tightly bound ledgers and the digital production was of such poor quality as to be virtually useless.

                  (I also want to know - what happened to the digital images they DID manage to capture, where are they and why can't we have access to them?)

                  OC
                  Maybe Siemens doesn't have the right technology/expertise available to them. That would be what distinguishes them from another company which might tender for the new contract.

                  from the link I included above:
                  Q. Why can't GRO provide indexes to the records that have already been digitised?
                  GRO does not have the necessary technical architecture to provide online access to the records that have already been digitised. Online access will be addressed as part of the D&I project.

                  Q. What has happened to the records which have already been digitised?
                  The digitised records are now being used by GRO within its certificate production system, known as EAGLE. As well as a database and image store, the EAGLE system also allows for the recording and tracking of all customer orders.
                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My reading of it is that where they do have the image, that is what you will get printed on your certificate, not a freshly typed or written-out version.
                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ah, yes, now I come to think of it, two certs received recently from the GRO were photocopies, rather odd ones I thought, but I couldn't quite work out why I thought they were odd!

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From memory, the vast majority of the certs. I've ordered in the last 3-4 years have been "originals". The quality is sometimes a bit variable but they have all been readable.
                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          remember that they do not have the original certificates, they are held by the Local Register Office, all the GRO has is the quarterly returns copies. As family historians we are always told to go to the source, in that case get your certificates from the LRO
                          Mike in Droitwich

                          My family tree is on
                          http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mike

                            I do normally get my certs from the local RO rather than the GRO.

                            The problem is though, that many local ROs are now declining to issue certs for family history purposes.

                            Those which do still supply them are starting to use the digital GRO copies, which they have on computer, rather than going and digging out the original registers. This is what the Dove and Eagle project is all about, getting the certs onto computer for the benefit of streamlining the records and only having one version.

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It seems the predictions I made in September 2008 were wrong and need to be amended-

                              "In 100 years the Government will have finally cobbled together the measures proposed in the January 2002 White Paper ‘Civil Registration : Delivering Vital Change’. This will include ‘through life records’ making family history research as easy as switching on a computer, or possibly recalling from the digital memory embedded in our brains.

                              In the not too distant future, say in ten to twenty year the old birds (Dove, Eagle & Magpie) will stagger into the air.

                              However some changes are in the pipeline (as previously posted elsewhere)

                              DoVE Digitisation of Vital Events
                              Will be renamed
                              OLDE DoVE Only Limited Deposits Emulating Digitisation of Vital Events

                              EAGLE Electronic Access to GRO Legacy Events
                              Will be renamed
                              BALD EAGLE Badly Accessed Limited Design Electronic Access to GRO Legacy Events

                              MAGPIE MultiAccess to GRO Public Index of Events
                              Will be renamed
                              LONE MAGPIE Lost Operations Negative Endurance MultiAccess to GRO Public Index of Events "

                              The above failed to mention the new initiative the Digitisation and Indexing Project or DIP for short.
                              DIP of course really stands for Definitely Impractical Proposition.

                              Sorry for the omission. ;)
                              Cheers
                              Guy
                              Guy passed away October 2022

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                So unkind, Guy! ;)

                                Christine
                                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                  Mike


                                  The problem is though, that many local ROs are now declining to issue certs for family history purposes.
                                  Birmingham Register Office has a resident genealogist who is most helpful in making sure that you get the certificate you want and the office connected to UKbmd seem keen to provide certificates
                                  Mike in Droitwich

                                  My family tree is on
                                  http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Not sure that Guy is taking this seriously! :Wink:
                                    Elaine







                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Guy

                                      LOLOLOL!!!

                                      Elaine - not sure the GRO is taking this seriously either.

                                      Mike - how lucky is Birmingham! Most of our Register Offices have closed here in West Cornwall and we have to either go the County Town and make an appointment, or wait for the travelling Registrar to pop in, again by appointment. There are stern notices in the RO about how they are too busy to fiddle around with FH queries.

                                      Oh, and what, pray, is "technical architecture" and do we care whether the GRO has any of it or not?

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        "Technical architecture" is a computing term closely related to "garbage in, garbage out".
                                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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