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Llewellyn Howard 1866-1946- completely stuck!

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  • Llewellyn Howard 1866-1946- completely stuck!

    Can anyone suggest how I can move my seach on regarding my great grandfather.
    His name was Llewellyn Howard and I have found him on the 1911 census and the 1901 census but nowhere else. He seems to have completely disappeared. I have his death certificate in the hope I could find out more about his birth place, as all I know is that it is listed as Sheffield - but there are no details on it about his birth place.
    Can anyone suggest where I can look next. His wife Mary Rebecca nee Houchin has also disappeared - all very mysterious and extremely frustrating.
    Would really appreciate any tips as I am relatively new to all this.
    Thanks
    Purdy

  • #2
    The only Llewellyn Howard b. 1866 I can find on the 1901 census has a wife, Mary (b.Greenwich London) and daughter Ivy May (b. abt 1900 Greenwich London). He is also listed as b. Greenwich. Is this your family ?

    Beverley



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    • #3
      This does seem to be a very rare name (surprisingly!). If you search FreeBMD FreeBMD - Search for events there are very few Llewellyn Howard even if you use a wildcard search on the first name.

      Do you have their marriage certificate? Does it have their ages on it? The reason I ask is because the age on the death certificate may not be accurate - it is the best guess of the person who was the informant.

      The only suitable births showing on FreeBMD are in 1853 and 1858. Maybe he pretended to be younger than he was? Or maybe his birth was not registered? Alternatively he might have been registered with a different first name?

      These are just my first thoughts
      Anne

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      • #4
        There is a Llewelyn (note sp) on the 1891 census in Clewer, Berks. He is only 18 though and a schoolteacher (probably a 'pupil teacher'). He was born in Poyle Middlesex. I think he must be the one whose birth is registered as Edward Llewellyn Howard in the Staines Registration District in the September quarter 1872.

        Anne

        Forgot to say - Welcome to FTF!!!

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        • #5
          I see from FreeBMD that he married Mary Houchin in 1909, so he was over 40. Was she his first wife? If you have the marriage certificate it should say if he is a widower or not. It would also tell you his father's name.

          Anne

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          • #6
            Hi Purdy.

            Like Ann, I think it likely that Llewellyn may have been a second name, which he reverted to. My own G.Grandfather appears to have alternated his names throughout his life.
            You say that Mary's name was Houchin. I have not been able to find a record for any marriage between Houchin and Howard but have found this possible birth record for Mary

            Name: Mary Houchin
            Birth: Jun 1866 - Bethnal Green, Greater London, London, Middlesex

            I see now that Ann has found a marriage, I would advise that this be your next certificate to buy. You may then be able to find him via his father.

            With both Llewellyn and Mary being 35, on your first findings, it maybe too that this Mary may have been married before.

            Good luck and welcome to the frustrating world of genealogy.
            Bubblebelle x

            FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

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            • #7
              Yes this is my family.
              A living relative of mine tells me that as a child she was always told Llewellyn came from the Sheffield area which ties up with the information on the 1911 census - after that I am stuck.
              There has been another posting to me which may be of help so I will look into that and see if the mystery unravels.
              Thanks for replying to my posting.
              Purdy

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              • #8
                Hi Anne,
                Thanks so much for replying.
                I was not aware of the site you mention. I have now been on it but am obviously not as accomplished as you are, as I cannot find the information on their marriage. How do I get the information that you managed to find, I am obviously entering information incorrectly. Any tips would be gratefully received!!
                My findings so far reveal that he was born in 1866 approx and I have his death certificate which states date of death as 28th May 1946. His wie Mary (Houchin) died on 17th January 1933. Their address was 84 Riverway, Greenwich, London.
                Thanks so much for your reply, and as I said if you have any tips on the site you used I would be extremely grateful. I feel encouraged again!!
                Thanks
                Purdy
                p.s. I'm not even sure if I am replying correctly on this site!!

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                • #9
                  Hi Bubblebelle,
                  Thanks for replying. Have made a posting to Anne and as I am new to this site I am not sure if you are able to see my reply. Anyhow, her information has encouraged me to start my search again, especially as I can now try to get to grips with the site she uses.
                  Thanks again.
                  Purdy (slightly encouraged)

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                  • #10
                    Yes - you are replying correctly! With a lot of the websites you search it is better to put LESS information than everything you know. When I looked for your marriage all I entered in the FreeBMD search boxes was 'Howard' in the surname box and 'Houchin' in the spouse name box. Three marriages came up but the one you want is obvious - the first name has been entered as 'Llewollyn' - that is why it would not appear if you put in the correct spelling!

                    If you then click on the page number (324) you can see the names of the four people on that page. You already knew Mary Rebecca's name and there she is. If you click on the little spectacles you can navigate to the actual image of the index and see that his name is entered in the index as Llewollyn.

                    I would stongly suggest you buy this certificate if you don't have it. You can order it from the GRO here General Register Office (GRO) - Official information on births, marriages and deaths. Be sure to tick the box which asks if you have the full reference. These are the details you need
                    Marriage: Mar 1909: W. Ham: Vol 4a; page 324; Llewollyn Howard. The certificate will cost £7.

                    Anne

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                    • #11
                      On another tack - I am interested that you seem to think he came from Sheffield. I can't find anything to suggest that? Where was he on the 1911 census?

                      Anne

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                      • #12
                        Hi Purdy. Since you have confirmed your Llewellyn was living in Greenwich, I guess Ivy May Howard, bapt.1 March 1900, daughter of Llewellyn and Mary Howard is yours. I can't quite work out the address in Greenwich...it looks like 58 Aryof St, but I guess that is not right. Can send you the image if you want. Llewellyn is listed as a labourer.

                        Beverley



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                        • #13
                          Hmmm! They married a bit late then! LOL :tong: ( Unless he was a widower in 1909?)

                          Anne

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                          • #14
                            Spelt like this in 1911, birthplace Sheffield.

                            HOWARD, Lllenleyn

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                              Hmmm! They married a bit late then! LOL :tong: ( Unless he was a widower in 1909?)

                              Anne
                              Ooops. Posted that without realising when the marriage was found.:emb: Ivy is possibly not born to the right family then.

                              Beverley



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                              • #16
                                I couldn't resist looking at the census page! Ivy is belonging to the family but the 'number of years married' column is ambigous to say the least! I think there is something written there by the clerk (not in Llewllyn's hand) and it is NOT a number. :conf:

                                Anne

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                                • #17
                                  I have a theory, but maybe completely wrong.

                                  There is a marriage of a Mary Rebecca Houchen in West Ham, 1885 to a George Mott.

                                  The Mott family appear to be here in 1891 in Woodford RG12; Piece: 1360; Folio 56; Page 2

                                  Fast forward to 1901 and George is down as married but no wife in household
                                  RG13; Piece: 1635; Folio: 100; Page: 43.

                                  Could it be Mary went off with Llewellyn and started a new family and why they married later, maybe waiting until Mr. Mott passed on.

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                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Anne for your help.
                                    I have sent off for the marriage certificate today - am excited again now!
                                    On the 1911 census he was living at 8 Ceylon Place, Greenwich which later changed to River Way (or so I think). On the 1911 census there is something written in the column regarding the marital status of Mary Howard (Houchin) but I cannot decipher it. Looks like it was written by the clerk as well.
                                    Thank you SO much for your help.
                                    Purdy

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                                    • #19
                                      Hi Beverly,
                                      Yes Ivy May was my great Aunt. I met her a couple of times when I was a child. The name of the street is Azof Street - which is still there and which I have been to look at.
                                      I would love you to send me the image you mention. It looks like all their children were born before they were married!! four of whom lived and two who did not survive - . Horace Roy was my grandad born in 1901 and died in 1969.
                                      Thank you so much for yur help.
                                      Purdy

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                                      • #20
                                        Hi Suffolk Sue
                                        Your theory is very interesting.
                                        Thanks for the info on the Mott family and it is certainly something I will look into. The trouble with all this is that I lose all track of time when I start searching and even though I say I will only go on the computer for an hour, it never is that short!!!
                                        The info I have on Mary says she was born in Ongar in Essex and if the Woodford you mention is the Woodford that is now in East London and close to the Essex border this could all fit together.
                                        Poor Mr Mott if your theory is correct!!
                                        Thanks again - so many people have been so helpful
                                        Purdy

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