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A mystery! (aka what the heck were my family doing!?)

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  • A mystery! (aka what the heck were my family doing!?)

    Hiya

    I've posted a few times recently and received some great suggestions and advice in finding some of my relatives who were proving a tad elusive but even with that assistance I am still hitting a brick wall on two people from my past. Scooby-Doo and the Mystery Machine aren't available, hee hee, so if anyone else can help, I'd be really really grateful!

    Problem number 1: henry/alfred/john/cresswell/selwyn (any combination of these names, grrrrrrrrr)

    The first time I can 'find' him for certain is in 1861. He appears on his son's birth certificate as Alfred John Selwyn, Upholsterer. They lived in Hawley, Blackwater (Hants or Surrey, depending on the year!)

    Then, in 1862, on his daughter's birth certificate, he appears as Alfred Selwyn, Upholsterer. Their address is 4 Haberdashers Place East, Hoxton Old Town, Middlesex.

    Then, on the 1871 census he appears as Henry Selwyn, born Middlesex, birth year approx 1830. Living at Lord Clyde Beer House, Aldershot.

    Then, in 1872 he appears on his 3rd son's birth certificate as Alfred Henry Selwyn, Retailer of beer, living in Ash Road, Aldershot.

    In July 1880 he dies of Bright's Disease, as Henry Cresswell Selwyn at Sandpit Cottage, Alexandra Road, Aldershot, Hants and listed as an upholsterer. Death reported by his daughter, Isabella.

    In 1892, his son's marriage certificate shows the father's name as Henry Cresswell Selwyn (deceased), Upholsterer.

    For clarification, his spouse was Emily Rawlins, his children were Alfred Cresswell Selwyn b 1861, Isabella Mary Selwyn b 1862 and George Cresswell Selwyn b 1872.

    It is a total mystery and I'm not getting anywhere. I don't have a record of his marriage to Emily Rawlins but I do know that in 1851 she was still at home in Southampton, and worked as an Upholsteress. He is listed as an upholsterer so I wonder if they perhaps met at work or something? I wonder where they worked? In 1851 she was in Southampton, we don't know where he was, but by 1861 they were living together in Aldershot as a married couple.

    So, any ideas how I can track him? If he was born in 1829/1830ish then he has to have been somewhere in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses!

    So, as Penelope Pitstop would say...."Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!" (please)

    Thanks in advance
    Rachel-the-desparate!
    Last edited by Rachandgarry; 07-11-09, 15:50.

  • #2
    The first time I can 'find' him for certain is in 1861. He appears on his son's birth certificate as Alfred John Selwyn, Upholsterer. They lived in Hawley.
    When was his son born? Is there an address on the BC .. and where is Hawley?
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Elaine,

      His son, Alfred Cresswell Selwyn, was born on 2nd January 1861 in Hawley. According to the certificate, this is in REG DISTRICT Farnborough, Sub-district of Farnborough, in the Counties of "Southampton & Surrey". In reality, Hawley is in Blackwater, which was sometimes in Surrey and sometimes in Hants.

      Thanks in advance
      Rachel

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      • #4
        I'm still here .... and getting nowhere! :F
        Elaine







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        • #5
          Originally posted by Rachandgarry View Post
          I don't have a record of his marriage to Emily Rawlins but I do know that in 1851 she was still at home in Southampton, and worked as an Upholsteress.
          I presume you are referring to this census entry
          - Ancestry.co.uk
          HO107; Piece: 1669; Folio: 418; Page: 7

          There doesn't seem to be any other Emily Rawlin(g)(s) in Southampton at that time so I'm wondering who this marriage on freeBMD relates to:

          Marriages Mar 1853
          CLEAVE Walter
          HARDING William
          ORAM Rosena
          RAWLINS Emily
          S Hampton 2c 45

          I can see an 1861 census entry for a Walter Cleave with wife Rosina, living in Southampton, so am presuming that Emily Rawlins married William Harding.

          Do you know anything about this marriage - have you discounted her as being the same Emily you found in the 1851 census, occ. upholsterer?
          Elaine







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          • #6
            I've come up with the same as you Elaine. I cant find William and Emily together on any census so I wonder if he died and Alfred came along soon after.
            Hail Spode!

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            • #7
              Hiya

              I've ordered that marriage certificate, but it hasn't arrived yet. I looked it up on the individual pages (went through Q by Q, year by year) so didn't find the other names Cleave, Harding or Oram. I've not used freeBMD yet, doh!

              Thanks,
              Rachel

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              • #8
                It will be interesting to see what that marriage certificate says. If it is the same Emily then obviously you would need to search for a death for her husband. Of course there is always the possibility that the husband didn't die and she lived with Alfred/Henry Selwyn without marrying.

                Of course that doesn't help explain where he is in 1861 or before!
                Elaine







                Comment


                • #9
                  It looks like they were either married, or living as married, by 1861 because on the son's birth certificate where it says "Name, Surname and maiden surname of mother" it states Emily Selwyn, formerly Rawlins. If she had been married before I would have thought it would have said Emily Selwyn, formerly <blank, formerly Rawlins.... but then again, who knows lol!

                  I can't believe I can't find him before 1861. Its driving me potty!!!!!!!

                  Rachel x

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                  • #10
                    Sorry, I can't see him either! Man of mystery. Unless of course he adopted the Selwyn surname and was born and baptised and appeared on earlier censuses under a different name....
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      For what it's worth, a William Harding died in Southampton in Q4 of 1853, and another in Q3 of 1856.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's what I am wondering...

                        How sad would it be if I just can't find him ever? :-( :-(

                        Another poster suggested an avenue to me, and I've just got my head around it. I wonder if it is a possibility:

                        - Ancestry.co.uk

                        This ancestry record shows a Henry Cresswell, born approx 1832 in Marylebone. The 1851 census shows him aged 19, living in Chelsea, as a chairmaker (could that later turn in to Upholsterer?), with his mother Hannah (aged 53), and his sister Jane (aged 24). No sign of his father though.

                        Any thoughts?

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                        • #13
                          I would say it's definitely worth following through particularly as he gives place of birth as Marylebone - I seem to remember seeing that on one of the later censuses.
                          Elaine







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                          • #14
                            The same family as above, 10 years earlier....

                            ancestry

                            shows Wm Cresswell (presumably William), Hannah, then children including Henry.

                            I will follow this avenue for a while I think and see where it leads!

                            R

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                            • #15
                              By 1861, Hannah Cresswell (still a Laundress) is living on her own, still in Chelsea.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Rachel, I haven't posted again before because I haven't found anything new.

                                Just to say I can understand why this one is driving you potty! :smilee: I had terrible problems with the Alfred/Henry/Selwyn/Cresswell conundrum.

                                Good luck!
                                Elizabeth
                                Research Interests:
                                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Its just so aggravating isn't it, lol!!

                                  My latest wild idea is based on this:

                                  In 1841, this family:

                                  William Cresswell, 49 (chairmaker)
                                  Hannah Cresswell, 44 (laundress)
                                  Jane Cresswell, 14
                                  Emma Cresswell, 12
                                  Henry Cresswell, 9
                                  Hannah Cresswell, 6

                                  were living in St Margarets, Middx.

                                  By 1851 census, William had moved to Kidderminster and was living alone but Hannah was still living with Jane (now a Laundress too) and Henry, who was 19 and also a chairmaker.

                                  By 1861, Hannah was still in the same area but living alone.

                                  I'm wondering if William Cresswell left them or something, and in protest, Henry said that he no longer wanted to be Henry Cresswell - so changed his name to Selwyn or something?!! Of course, it doesn't explain the Alfred or Alfred John bits that come in later.

                                  And it could be all just a coincidence!!

                                  Aaaaaaaaaargh!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    How about this Selwin family in 1841, residing in Hatfield Broadoak in Essex but all born out of county.
                                    Theres a son Henry John and what appears to be mother and sister called Isabella.

                                    HO107/330/4
                                    Folio 32
                                    Page 18

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                                    • #19
                                      OR Hannah was really Hannah Selwyn and pretended she was married?
                                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Little Nell,

                                        I'd wondered that too, but I have had no luck finding a Hannah Selwyn in the years before 1841. If it is this family, they were born in High Wycombe, Bucks, so the parish records should be good but I still can't find her grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

                                        Someone on ancestry has included them in their tree, and has their child as Daniel Henry Cresswell..... I wonder if the Henry Cresswell I'm hoping is my guy, changed his name to Daniel Henry Cresswell and is part of that tree's family...if so, then I'm looking at the wrong family. Alternatively, the tree on ancestry may have wrongly assumed the parents.

                                        Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

                                        Rachel

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