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  • Harts Intro.

    Good afternoon [OZ TIME],
    This is my very first entry into this forum.
    I became a member because Naomi keeps pestering me to do so, she can be scary in full flight. [LOL]
    No, she kindly let me know about FTF.

    My interests are HART, TATTERSALL, SOWTER, BUTTON, STOCKBRIDGE, BLACKMORE, LINTENBRINK, HOFFMAN.

    Benjamin Hart [1852] arrived in Australia is 1883 with his wife [Matilda] and four children. They had more children in Sydney then in around 1900 they made a move to the south island of New Zealand. Both Benjamin and Matilda are buried in Spring Grove.
    The family seems to have suffered a dividing around this time with my g/father Gershon born 1883 [the year arrival] moved to Melbourne then over to WA where Benjamin's descendants still live.

    Very best to all, Ray
    Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
    Spurgeon.

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum, Ray.

    If you need any help with your research then don't hesitate to post some questions.

    With regard to the surnames that you are researching you might like to check our GEDCOM database to see if anyone else is following the same line - click on GEDCOM on the blue navigation bar to search.

    We also have a Surname Database in our Wiki (Reference Library) where members have added their research interests - click on The Wiki on the blue nav bar, select Wiki Main Page, scroll down and you will find an icon for the Surname Index.

    Do have a look round the wiki while you are there - pages and pages of useful information. You can search by using the search box in the left hand column of any page.
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hawk View Post
      Good afternoon [OZ TIME],
      This is my very first entry into this forum.
      I became a member because Naomi keeps pestering me to do so, she can be scary in full flight. [LOL]
      No, she kindly let me know about FTF.

      My interests are HART, TATTERSALL, SOWTER, BUTTON, STOCKBRIDGE, BLACKMORE, LINTENBRINK, HOFFMAN.

      Benjamin Hart [1852] arrived in Australia is 1883 with his wife [Matilda] and four children. They had more children in Sydney then in around 1900 they made a move to the south island of New Zealand. Both Benjamin and Matilda are buried in Spring Grove.
      The family seems to have suffered a dividing around this time with my g/father Gershon born 1883 [the year arrival] moved to Melbourne then over to WA where Benjamin's descendants still live.

      Very best to all, Ray
      Hi Ray,
      Thanks for your efforts , in trying to tie my Hart's with yours.

      Good luck mate in your research:smilee::smilee:
      Researching the names HART,LILLEY,DAVISON & FINN all from around LINCS/CAMBS. HARTS Also in AUS & CANADA

      Dont give up in the search for Maddie

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you know where he arrived from? ( and about his life before he arrived?)
        Jess

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hawk View Post
          I became a member because Naomi keeps pestering me to do so, she can be scary in full flight. [LOL]
          No, she kindly let me know about FTF.
          Pleased you're on here Ray! Sure you'll get lots of help and ideas...
          scary in full flight eh! :Wink:

          Comment


          • #6
            I have a few Buttons and Hart on the Suffolk side of my tree if that seems to fit.
            Sorry - meant to say Welcome to the site first

            Comment


            • #7
              Hiya Ray...welcome to FTF...just checked freebmd and there are only 5 Benjamin Hart born in 1852
              2 in Whitechapel London in June qtr
              1 in Shardlow june qtr
              2 in Hackney London sep qtr

              do you have any details on your Benjamin Hart ?....
              you say that Benjamin arrived in 1883....so...on freebmd the only marriage for Benjamin Hart to a Matilda that fits your dates is

              Benjamin Hart to Matilda Solomon mar qtr 1875 London City 1c 168..

              there`s one in 1867 but that would make Benjamin 15yrs of age....so it looks like Matilda Solomon is your safest bet....do you have their childrens names?....
              .allan:smilee:
              Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
              oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
              adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
              merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
              coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

              Comment


              • #8
                Benjamin Hart - baptised April 17, St Matthias Bethnal Green Tower Hamlets Middlesex. born Sep 21st. (Presumably the previous year) Parents Henry and Rebecca Hart. 14, Daniel St. (can't make out the next bit) Brick Maker

                Don't you just love the LMA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Everyone,
                  Firstly what a great welcome to Family Tree Forum, thank you.
                  I'm going to give you a great deal of detail in a moment on the Jewish side of the family, known as the HARTs. They like many Jewish folk in the UK needed to anglicize their names so as do well in business. Their business was that of Fishmongers. They seem to own a couple of shops and employed of members of the extended family.
                  Here is what I have on my family tree. I can vouch for Benjamin down but as the Great Synagogue of London research is very expensive I'm not totally sure of the info above Zalig.

                  Meir Cohen Hart b.1750

                  Moses HART b.1800-d.1844 [aka Moshe HaCohen Hart].
                  Marr. Elizabeth Unknown and Leah Benjamin
                  Children: 7 1818-1838
                  Zalig Solomon HART [aka Solomon Zelig [Talig] HART] b. 1818 Whitechapel London.
                  Marr: 1844 Aldgate, Mary Hannah Joel.]
                  D: 1881.
                  Reside: 2 Stoney Lane, 101 Petticoat Lane, 101 Middlesex St. and 36 Westbourne St..
                  Maybe some of these addresses are business addresses.
                  Children: by 1844 three.

                  Benjamin HART, married Matilda Solomon on the 10 day of February 1875 in the Great Synagogue of London. He was 24 and she 20. He was a bachelor, Fishmonger and she is down as spinster. The marriage took place at 9 Bedford Square.
                  Bedford Square now has only three sides left of the original square and is called Ford Square.

                  Benjamin's father was a fishmonger and her father Coleman Solomon was a furniture dealer.

                  The 1881 British census has their place of residence as 67 Goldney Rd.


                  Below we'll find the detail of the ship in which the Hart family sailed aboard the “ELLORA” (1855) from England to Sydney, Australia.
                  Benjamin and Matilda left England with four children……….

                  Marion Pauline ……………..…….…b.1875
                  POB: St. Mary, Paddington. 33 Chippendale Terrace.
                  Marr: 1921 Percy J Williams and 1894 Edgar J. Josephson [NSWBDM 5536]

                  Charles Henry…………………..….... b.1873
                  Marriage; Susannah Elizabeth Tilbey in
                  Wellington, New Zealand in 1921.
                  D.:NZ

                  Alexander Joseph………………..…... b.1880
                  POB: Kensington Paddington, UK.
                  Marr.: NA
                  D. NZ
                  Note: Joined the a South African Police Force keeping order during the Anglo-Boer War. [SAC]]
                  HART, Alexander J
                  No: 265
                  Private
                  Unit: 1 NSW Mtd. Rifles
                  Comments: M:'C' Sqn. inv. Aust. arr. 15.9.00. b5204: QSA&2 (Drief, & CC)
                  issued on 'C' Div. SAC
                  Other Sources: M:66 B5204


                  Sarah…………………………..………b.1882
                  POB: Paddington, NSW.
                  Marr: 20 Oct. 1897 NZ Ernest Stafford.
                  D: 4 Jun. 1924 New Zealand
                  Note; She appears on the ships list and mothers estate papers but nothing else.

                  The Australian born children are……….

                  Gershon Leopold………………………..b.1883. [my g/father]
                  POB: Sydney, NSW.
                  Marr.: 12 Dec.1906
                  D: 26 Aug. 1969 Western Australia.
                  Married; Louisa Knights “Louie” d.1979


                  Jeanetta Julia…………………..…….….b.1886
                  POB: Paddington, NSW
                  Marr: 1908 Robert Thomas Blackmore

                  Avice Arnetta…........................................b. 1888
                  POB: Paddington, NSW
                  Mar: 1912 Garnet Blackmore
                  D.: Macquarie Park Cemetery (Lane Cove) -
                  Avice Anetta BLACKMORE, burial, Jewish/B9/0035, Interred 12/08/1974

                  John Robert Victor……………..….…….b.1890
                  Marr: Rita Alice
                  W/R: War Record. New Zealand.
                  Hart, John Robert Victor. Service 1914-1916
                  Agency AABK, Series 18805, Accession w5539, Box/item 91, Record 0051579.
                  Source : http://archway.archives.gov.nz.

                  Harold Hector Bernard……………..…...b. 1893.
                  POB: Waverley, NSW.
                  Marr: 1916 NZ. Amelia Ellen Costello.
                  D: 1 Oct. 1952

                  Norman Cyril Alphonso…………..…….b. 1900
                  POB: Randwick, NSW.
                  Marr: Ellen May.
                  D.: 1968 Kogarah, NSW


                  Some time after 1900 the Hart family left Australia and moved to New Zealand. They seemed to have lived and died in Spring Grove on a road called Bridge Valley Road.
                  Bridge Valley is back road off Higgins Road. Higgins road runs from Spring Grove parallel to the old main road and links via Bird Road back to that Main Road. Bridge Valley does a circuit back through farm land, somewhat more in the hills, to come out via a valley to Wakefield.

                  Although they were married in a Synagogue it appears they may have converted to a protestant church. They attended a Church of Christ in Spring Grove. The minster seems to be Tom Bamford, who sign at least one of their death certificates.

                  Joyce Griffith, nee Moore who lived in Bridge Valley in the 1930s remembers Pa Hart as an old man at his house in the valley. The house has been removed and rebuilt by some folk called Shone. I am trying to locate a cemetery plan to try and identify grave sites in the Spring Grove Cemetery.
                  Benjamin is buried as William, reason unknown.
                  All paper work [death notice and death certificate] says they are buried in Spring Grove.
                  There is a WILLIAM HART and MATILDA HART buried in the Spring Grove.
                  William's death is similar to Benjamin. Only the days date is wrong.

                  Benjamin's Probate.
                  Place. Richmond.
                  Occupation. Rtr. Shop Keeper. [family stories say he had a haberdashery]
                  Court. Wellington
                  Filed. 9/8/1934.
                  Type. Intestate [Letters of Adm

                  Well, there you are [arn't you sorry you asked]I hope someone here finds it just alittle bit interesting.
                  My best wishes to you and yours, Hawk
                  Last edited by Hawk; 03-12-09, 00:57. Reason: Correction.
                  Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
                  Spurgeon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trina,
                    The Butons you mention sound interesting. Where in Suffolk did there come from? Were they painters [as in house], did they come to Australia at all, any thought on who they married?
                    Very best to you, Hawk [Australia]
                    Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
                    Spurgeon.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Harts

                      Originally posted by Dave Hart View Post
                      Hi Ray,
                      Thanks for your efforts , in trying to tie my Hart's with yours.

                      Good luck mate in your research:smilee::smilee:
                      My pleasure, just sorry we were not able to help a lot. Hawk.:smilee:
                      Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
                      Spurgeon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi - re; Avice Arnetta…........................................b. 1888
                        POB: Paddington, NSW
                        Mar: 1912 Garnet Blackmore
                        D.: Macquarie Park Cemetery (Lane Cove) -
                        Avice Anetta BLACKMORE, burial, Jewish/B9/0035, Interred 12/08/1974

                        BDBD says;
                        14490 1974-08-10 Blackmore Avice Anetta 9 371 n/a born 9 March 1888; mother of J***, J**n and G****t; same plot 370***. Chana bat Binyamin B Northern Suburbs/Macquarie Sydney, NSW - Avice is plot 371 - is her husband next to her??
                        Did they have a son with the same name as his father?
                        BD-BD Jewish Burial Data for Australasia

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Zalig Solomon HART [aka Solomon Zelig [Talig] HART] b. 1818 Whitechapel London had two marriages;
                          Spouse 1 Mary Joel Spouse 2 Hannah Myers
                          Date of Marriage 1 28 Jul 1844 and Date of Marriage 2 14 Sep 1870
                          and children;
                          Moses (Morris)
                          Year of Birth 1846

                          Elizabeth (Betsey)
                          Year of Birth 1847

                          Daniel
                          Year of Birth 1850

                          Benjamin
                          Year of Birth 1851

                          Rosetta
                          Year of Birth 1853

                          Zussman
                          Year of Birth 1854

                          Lipman
                          Year of Birth 1856

                          Zalig
                          Year of Birth 1865

                          Perhaps other children were born after 1857 and before 1865.

                          In 1840, 1850 and 1860 he was living at 101 Middlesex Street [Petticoat Lane], Aldgate -In 1870 and 1880 address was 36 Westbourne Terrace North, Bayswater - fishmonger and pickle dealer in 1850 - otherwise fishmonger

                          Last edited by naomiatt; 07-11-09, 01:50.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Benjamin HART, married Matilda Solomon on the 10 day of February 1875 in the Great Synagogue of London. He was 24 and she 20.
                            Benjamin's father was a fishmonger and her father Coleman Solomon was a furniture dealer."

                            According to the Jewish Chronicle, there is mention of a Coleman Solomon at 18 Wood Street, Spitafields..a Passover Cake Baker..wonder if your Coleman changed occupation!!

                            There are two deaths that might be him;

                            Deaths Mar 1887 Solomon Coleman 76 Whitechapel 1c 202

                            Deaths Dec 1900
                            Solomon Coleman Henry 70 Hackney 1b 338

                            Unless he's recorded as Solomon Coleman or Coleman Solomons**

                            A few marriage options as well;

                            Marriages Jun 1850
                            Levy Esther London 2 223
                            Myers Amelia London 2 223
                            Simmons Sarah London 2 223
                            Solomon Coleman London 2 223

                            Marriages Mar 1850
                            Davison Jane E. London 2 189
                            SIMMONS Sarah East London 2 189
                            Solomon Coleman E London 2 189

                            Marriages Sep 1842
                            LEVY Sarah London 2 173
                            MICHOLLS Emma London 2 173
                            MOSES Dinah London 2 173
                            SOLOMON Coleman London 2 173
                            SOLOMONS Coleman London 2 173

                            Marriages Dec 1846
                            Lewis Selina Strand 1 390a
                            Rosenberg Amelia Strand 1 390a
                            Solomons Catharine Strand 1 390a
                            Solomons Coleman Strand 1 390a

                            Do you have a copy of the Hebrew Marriage Authorisation for Benjamin and Matilda?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi - I don't have access to full census info - I wonder if somebody can see a Coleman Solomon with a daughter Matilda Solomon in the 1871 census?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I've had a quick look but I'm wondering if the Matilda Solomon who is a 16 year old servant in 1871 is yours perhaps? It says born Hammersmith, Middlesex and she is working in Paddington for a family names Adler. I haven't read the thread so maybe I am barking up the wrong tree?
                                Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 08-11-09, 15:29.
                                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Ray, nice to see you again.

                                  You may recall we've been in touch over Zusman Hart, Benjamin's brother, who was my husband's gt gt grandfather.
                                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Naomiatt,
                                    I was very surprised, in a very pleasant way, to see that Avice Arnetta had stuck to her faith. Or at the very least wanted to be buried under Jewish rites.
                                    For the casual reader I am not of the Jewish faith but am a Christian.
                                    Thank you Naomi I love the look of that site by the way.
                                    Almost forgot, yes they did have a son called Garnet.
                                    Is her husband buried beside her.....sorry I don't have a clue to my regret.
                                    Regards to you and yours, Ray
                                    Last edited by Hawk; 08-11-09, 23:57. Reason: additional information.
                                    Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
                                    Spurgeon.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Hawk View Post
                                      Naomiatt,
                                      I was very surprised, in a very pleasant way, to see that Avice Arnetta had stuck to her faith. Or at the very least wanted to be buried under Jewish rites.
                                      For the casual reader I am not of the Jewish faith but am a Christian.
                                      Thank you Naomi I love the look of that site by the way.
                                      Regards to you and yours, Ray
                                      Hi Ray - not a prob. Someone is next to her...in plot 371.
                                      Might be worth e mailing Maquarie Park to see who it is.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Naomi,
                                        Well for the third time going to get some info to you on the Solomons.
                                        I write it up and it won't send so here we go again so I going to send a family at a time.
                                        Firstly Colemans Solomon's Dad.

                                        Henry Solomon 1801 [no other info]
                                        Married. Rachel unknown [no other info]
                                        [Henry] Notes. RG9/210/67/34
                                        Pen Cutter/ British Census 1841
                                        British census 1861 has Henry is living at 2 Gravel Lane St. Botolph Without Aldgate.
                                        He was a grocer at the time.

                                        Children.
                                        Julia 1826 no info.

                                        Henry 1826 no info.

                                        Simon 1827
                                        Occupation. Cigar Maker.

                                        Coleman 1830 no info.
                                        Marr. Sarah Levy 1842 London City and Sarah Simmons 16 Jun. 1850.
                                        Notes. Coleman as a Furniture Broker, but is found as a Clothier in 1871 British Census.

                                        Residence at 1871 7 Sadlers Hall Crt. Aldgate.

                                        He is a manager of a cake factory by 1891. See British Census 1891.

                                        Moses 1830 no info.

                                        Nathan 1833 no info.

                                        Julia 1835 no info.

                                        Solomon 1837 no info.

                                        Elijah 1838 no info.

                                        Joseph 1840 no info.

                                        Isaac 1843 no info.

                                        Ok I hope that helps someone and I all that has been offered and done for me, thank you.
                                        My regards to all, HAWK.
                                        Kind words bring no blisters on the tongue that speaks them, nor on the ear that hears them.
                                        Spurgeon.

                                        Comment

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