Penligans again

[Pipemma]

I seem to do this in fits and starts so forgive me asking help again after a long absence. I'm back on my Penligan ancestors again.

Description Name Penligan, Frederick John Tremouth
Official Number: 48103
Place of Birth: Plymouth, Devon

Date 8 January 1840
Catalogue reference ADM 188/18
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 47801 - 48400
Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference

This is from TNA, he's John Penligan's second child/first son. Apart from the 1841 & 1851 censuses, this is the only record I can find of him. If I stump up the £3.50, what sort of information is it likely to give me? If anyone has any more clues about where to find info about him I'd be grateful - I think I've just about exhausted ancestry and LDS, but would be delighted to be proven wrong.

Also looking for Frederick's mother (my 4 x great grandmother) Elizabeth Hurrell née Trenewth - the only record I have of her is her marriage to John Penligan in 1832. I can't find where she was born, who she was married to before, when she died (between the 1841 census and 1845 when John remarried to the great grandmother of forum user Penligan), who her parents were, whether she had any siblings - who she was, basically.

Also interesting is that there is a Mary-Ann Penligan, born 1811 in Truro, an unmarried woman working as a cook in Maidstone. Since John Penligan was born in 1809 in Plymouth and the name isn't common, is this likely to be a sister? Can anyone find any other reference to her?

Many many thanks in advance

[WendyP]

HI

this might be Frederick John with sister Emma in the 1841 census


Love Street, Plymouth, devonshire

Elizabeth Penligan 30 not born in County
Emma Penligan 5 born in County
John Penligan 1 born in County

sorry just re read your message you do have this one but I'll leave for others to see

[Pipemma]

Yes, sorry, I was editing as you posted - I do have that one. Otherwise bricks abound :o:

[Olde Crone Holden]

Pipemma

I've now seen two lots of naval service records.

One was extremely informative and helpful, the other was extremely disappointing! But 3.50 is only the price of half a certificate, so I would probably go for it if I were in your shoes.

Incidentally, I live near Truro and the name Penligan is rare, whilst the name PenHALigan is very common. Might be worth investigating Penhaligan as well, because Penligan sounds like a contraction of the name to me.

OC

[Pipemma]

Hello OC, out of interest how many pages was the interesting service record? According to TNA this one is only one page...

Family legend always had it that John Penligan was Cornish but from everything I can see the family was on the Plymouth side of the river. I have the marriage of his parents in Stoke Damerel in 1803, but then if this Mary-Ann was a sister, then it would suggest they moved across the border. The one I rather expect to be Cornish is Elizabeth Trenewth but I just can't find her

I have always thought that the family probably weren't PenHAlig(o)ns as whenever they crop up, there are multiple spellings of the name but never with an extra HA in the middle, which I always took to be a deliberate differentiation. They might change the vowel and number of consonants but less likely the number of syllables.... That's what my linguist's instinct tells me, but of course I could be way off

[Pipemma]

I took your advice, OC, and it looks like I've reached the end of Frederick's trail:



So he was in the CG, like his father, serving as an able seaman on the Hector and "Drowned at Cowes" on 1 Feb 1873, if I'm reading this right. FE I found as full engagement - does that mean he joined the CG at age 14? U can't quite read the squiggle under AB

[WendyP]

HI

Ive sent you a Personal Message as I'm not sure I'll be able to post wath I've found.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Tiny nitpicking niggle - I'm reading his name as "Trenewth" not Tremouth.

He may have joined up much earlier than age 14. I have a later one than this who joined RN as a boy sailor aged 12 (and in fact he was only 11).

Yes, that's very like my disappointing one, although mine did full service (22 years). All that is on it is a list of ships he served on and general remarks about his conduct.

You are probably correct about the name Penligan, it's just that here, the name Penhaligan is pronounced (by those with a broad Cornish accent)

Pen-ligan, with a sort of guttural noise between the Pen and Ligan, lol. I have to say though that an equal number of people pronounce it as

P-nallygan!

OC

[Pipemma]

Yes, he was Trenewth but it seems it's as often written down as Tren(m)outh - can't blame the poor folks can you!

[Christine in Herts]

Anyone researching that sort of era & area might find it worth while to buy the Devon FHS CD "The Deanery of the Three Towns", which has transcriptions of baptisms, marriages, and burials for the six churches. I'm not sure how much it costs now. I have the 2004 edition, and paid £15 for it in March 2006. They also have more recent records of Plymouth (and thereabouts) marriages on CDs, similarly priced.
DEVON FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY

This might also be a useful link:
Stoke Damerel OPC - Home Page

Christine

[Pipemma]

Following some info Christine found for me, I searched IGI on Pennyliggan and in amongst the hoards of Penhaligans I found

Thomas PENLIGGAN b 21 Jan 1754 in Withiel, Cornwall
Elizabeth PENLIGGAN b 24 Nov 1755, also in Withiel

to John and Ann Penliggan. Obviously we're talking 50-80 years prior and I have no link at all, but I guess they're worth keeping an eye on, maybe another avenue to see if I can work backwards (or rather forwards)?

[Pipemma]

Also looking for Frederick's mother (my 4 x great grandmother) Elizabeth Hurrell née Trenewth - the only record I have of her is her marriage to John Penligan in 1832. I can't find where she was born, who she was married to before, when she died (between the 1841 census and 1845 when John remarried to the great grandmother of forum user Penligan), who her parents were, whether she had any siblings - who she was, basically.

Thanks to Devon FHS, it looks like some light is shed on the Hurrell connection.

In June 1824, Elizabeth Trenouth married John Ball Hurrell in Plymstock; William Trenouth Hurrell, parents John & Elizabeth, was born 3 months later in the same parish. There are no other Elizabeth Trenouths marrying a Hurrell in their records so that must be my connection. In 1798, a John Hurrell married Elizabeth Ball, also in Plymstock - assuming a family tradition of giving the first born son his mother's maiden name as a middle name, this would make the 1798 marriage 1824 John Ball's parents and John Ball the eldest son. (It would also appear she continued that tradition with her son Frederick Penligan)

John Ball Hurrell died in April 1829; Elizabeth Hurrell went onto marry John Penligan in 1832, giving birth to my 3 x great grandmother, Emma Jane Penligan, in 1835.

William Trenouth Hurrell also ended up in the Coast Guard, moving to Norfolk and then on to Lincolnshire. He married Martha Thompson in 1847 and named his eldest daughter Emma Jane, the same as his half sister in Devon. After Martha's death he then remarried Eliza Laws in Lincolnshire in 1884, dying in 1896 at the age of 71. However, I can't find him before the 1861 census - where was he when his mother was listed with her other 2 children in 1841? What happened to him when she died, did the Hurrells take him in?

Sadly none of this helps with precisely *who* Eliizabeth Trenouth was or when she died :( Since she was born outside Devon and I don't know where, my brick wall there is still firmly in place. According to Ancestry, there is a large cluster of Trenouths in the St Columb/Padstow area of Cornwall but I don't know where to turn next.

[Night Owl]

This seems to be William T Hurrell in 1851. Birthplace given as Plymouth but he's a Boatman H.M Coast Guard. It looks as though there was a daughter born before Emma. Elizabeth aged 3 b Eccles, Norfolk

- Ancestry.co.uk

[Night Owl]

A few possibles for 1841 - problem being that other than whether they were born in or out of county, it doesn't give the birthplace, or the relationships. Also, he was old enough to work in 1841 so more chance of him not being with his mother.

This seems a fair possibility as its in Plympton

- Ancestry.co.uk

[Pipemma]

Thanks for those, Night Owl. Yes, you're right, Emma was his second daughter. Your 1841 is possible I guess, but there's really not enough info to put money on it, is there :( Love their "yes born in county" and Scotland/Ireland/Foreign parts ticked :roll: