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modem
26-10-09, 11:22
Have just subscribed to the six month 1911 subscription package and have contacted FMP to ask whether the above policy (of 5,000 credits per month) is appropriate for the 1911 records.

This is because of the high cost of looking up the 1911 records as opposed to the general costs of accessing their other records. Also, it's not only the price of viewing the records but also the costs involved in tracking down the relevant ones.

I'm not holding my breath!

maggie_4_7
26-10-09, 11:35
Good point.

I might send one too.

modem
26-10-09, 14:09
This is the reply I have just recieved from FMP

"Thank you for your email.

The policy has only just been amended, up from 1000 credits. We have taken in to consideration the expensive of the 1911 census and we feel that 5000 credits is an adequate indicator for a personal user.

I am sorry but we will not be amending it again anytime soon."


With four trees on the go, this has reminded me why I have stuck with Ancestry for my main subscription site and PAYG for FMP.

Janet in Yorkshire
26-10-09, 14:24
Not very good at Maths, are they?
To view census image pre 1911 - 3 credits
To view census image 1911 - 30 credits

i.e 10x increase.

Allowance has increased from 1000 to 5000

5x increase. So, you can view LESS images within the monthly allowance.

The initial spiel was buy "unlimited" access to 1911 - you had to plough through a lot of very small print to find that "unlimited" IS limited.

Jay

Elaine ..Spain
26-10-09, 14:31
5000 credits per month is a fair amount.

With this you could look up approximately per month:
1911 census transcripts x 100
1911 census images x 50
1841-1901 census images or transcripts x 500
Parish records x 100

... and still have credits 'left over' at the end of the month.

I know I would find it very difficult keeping up with this sort of level of research, unless of course I was using my sub to help other people, which is of course what FMP are trying to avoid.

Elaine ..Spain
26-10-09, 14:34
Not very good at Maths, are they?
To view census image pre 1911 - 3 credits
To view census image 1911 - 30 credits

i.e 10x increase.

Allowance has increased from 1000 to 5000

5x increase. So, you can view LESS images within the monthly allowance.

The initial spiel was buy "unlimited" access to 1911 - you had to plough through a lot of very small print to find that "unlimited" IS limited.

Jay

But you are basing your calculations on everyone just using it for 1911 research. There is so much more on the FMP website that to be honest the 1911 is only a small part of what subscribers would use their credits on.

Anne in Carlisle
26-10-09, 14:42
But if I was going to subscribe it would only be for the 1911 part. I'm happy with what I get at Ancestry.

I agree 5000 credits is quite a lot but I have been known to keep on following down branches of family like a terrier down a hole :Big Grin: I think I could quite easily get near to the limit.

However the qualifier of '5000 per month over a rolling 3 months' makes it better (meaning you could use 15,000 in one month and then have a rest) I'm not sure even I could keep up that rate for long!

Anne

Janet in Yorkshire
26-10-09, 14:53
But you are basing your calculations on everyone just using it for 1911 research. There is so much more on the FMP website that to be honest the 1911 is only a small part of what subscribers would use their credits on.

I have only subscribed for 1911 census.

One of the things I wanted to do is to continue my research into the inhabitants of 3 small neighbouring villages - many fascinating extended family interconnections over the years.

As each household has its own unique image, you can soon get through your monthly allowance within just one of the villages.

Jay

Elaine ..Spain
26-10-09, 15:00
I see what you are saying Janet - but I think it's unfair to compare the two census charges and allowances when you are talking about two completely different subscription packages.

All I know is that with 1000 credits I could view
250 x 1841-1901 census images
plus approx 50 x parish records

- and now with 5000 credits I can view
500 x 1841-1901 census images,
100 x parish records and
approx 150 x 1911 census transcripts/images

- so certainly, in my opinion, a very fair increase on the general subscription package.

maggie_4_7
26-10-09, 15:14
I agree 5000 credits is quite a lot but I have been known to keep on following down branches of family like a terrier down a hole :Big Grin: I think I could quite easily get near to the limit.

Anne

Thats my problem I transgress a lot and suddenly I've found another distant connected family and off I go.

And I am lazy with my searches so I tend to look at a lot of images.

I still don't know if I would use that amount of credits though I really don't but I suppose I'll find out if they cut me off one day :smilee:

I suppose they have to do something to stop tons of lookups because of the revenue loss.

maggie_4_7
26-10-09, 15:30
I see what you are saying Janet - but I think it's unfair to compare the two census charges and allowances when you are talking about two completely different subscription packages.

All I know is that with 1000 credits I could view
250 x 1841-1901 census images
plus approx 50 x parish records

- and now with 5000 credits I can view
500 x 1841-1901 census images,
100 x parish records and
approx 150 x 1911 census transcripts/images

- so certainly, in my opinion, a very fair increase on the general subscription package.

I must admit last time someone posted about the fair use policy - I did the figures and I thought it was fine but I assumed they hadn't changed it for the 1911 but it appears they have.

Janet in Yorkshire
26-10-09, 16:05
Check the maths, but I think 5000 credits per month works out at viewing the images (1911) for a maximum of 500 households/individual families over each 3 month period.
That sounds "reasonable" on paper, until you start doing it. I'm pleased I'm not tracking several Jones families in the Welsh valleys, or John Smiths "somewhere" in London.:smilee:
It soon becomes very apparent how "different" tracking families in 1911 is -
previously, Grandad, Mum & Dad , married daughter & family, all living next door to each other, often came up on the same image. Now you need 3.

I appreciate the thinking behind the policy, but as someone researching large extended families in rural areas, where many of the unmarried children "live in " at their place at work, I think that it could be going to be quite tight for me.

Jay

maggie_4_7
26-10-09, 18:28
I think I'll probablly hit the target very soon to be honest the way I'm going - we'll see.

I have been looking at loads of 1911 images mostly for my family, extended family and OH's family and looking at other stuff on FMP. I use the electoral rolls a lot but you have to pay more credits for that.

Kit
27-10-09, 01:37
I didn't realise there was a limit on FMP. What happens when/if you exceed the limit?

Is there any limit on ancestry?

Anne in Carlisle
27-10-09, 10:07
I think FMP will start to charge per credit used if you exceed the limit.

As far as I know Ancestry has no such limit. I would surely have exceeded it with the LMA marriages. I have downloaded over 800 'certificates' for my one name study with no ill effects or comment from Ancestry. (If I'd know just how many there would be I might not have done it - but once you've started you can't stop!)

Anne

maggie_4_7
27-10-09, 10:15
I think FMP will start to charge per credit used if you exceed the limit.

As far as I know Ancestry has no such limit. I would surely have exceeded it with the LMA marriages. I have downloaded over 800 'certificates' for my one name study with no ill effects or comment from Ancestry. (If I'd know just how many there would be I might not have done it - but once you've started you can't stop!)

Anne

:eek:

...and I thought I had troubles :smilee:

Christine in Herts
27-10-09, 10:22
I didn't realise there was a limit on FMP. What happens when/if you exceed the limit?

Is there any limit on ancestry?

I think it's in their T&C somewhere, if you have a look. It would be difficult to enforce, if not.

Christine

Jeanie with one n.
27-10-09, 20:24
This post has really upset me.
I had no idea that there was any limit. I am carrying out a one name study and they have 10 pages of the name. I have been looking at them in alphabetical order which means I often look at the same image many times if it is a large family.
I certainly hope I will receive a 'times up' notice rather than them take money out of my account!!
I haven't even started looking at the other branches of my family.

Elaine ..Spain
27-10-09, 20:31
Jeanie - don´t worry, you are notified before they take any action, although I hope it doesn´t reach that point for you.
I´m sure we have another post on the forum about this - I´ll look for it for you.

Elaine ..Spain
27-10-09, 20:34
Here´s the link Jeanie, posted by Ian Tester who I believe is the FMP Marketing Manager. His comments were in response to a discussion about the Fair Use Policy of 1000 credits per month.

http://www.familytreeforum.com/1574699-post10.html

Jeanie with one n.
27-10-09, 22:25
Many thanks Elaine. We are going away for 4 weeks next Friday so that will slow down my use of the site to nill during that time.
Thanks again.

Kit
28-10-09, 05:58
So reading Ian's reply. If you are a heavy user and can establish it is for private use and not lookups for others or professional usage they may do nothing.

Durham Lady
28-10-09, 07:41
Am I reading this correctly? if I take out a full year subscription at the highest rate to FMP I'll still be limited to how many 1911 census lookups I can do? I've limited buying credits to immediate family so far and was thinking of changing when my ancestry sub runs out.

Elaine ..Spain
28-10-09, 07:45
You are limited to the total amount of credits you can use in a month (based on an average) - 5000 credits.

If you have a full subscription then you can use these on any searches - the cost of viewing images or transcriptions varies on what you are looking at - but for 5000 units you could view something like the following each month:

500 x 1841-1901 census images, (3 units per transcription/image)
100 x parish records and (varies between 4 and 8 units per view)
approx 150 x 1911 census transcripts/images (transcripts = 10 units, images = 30 units)

Multiply this by 12 and that would be that total maximum you could view in the year.

Durham Lady
28-10-09, 08:01
So, when they say on their site,

Subscribe
unlimited access to
your family history

they are not being truthful if the access is limited to how much you can look at per month! Looking at Explorer Plus 1911 thee's nothing easily visible to say that.

Janet in Yorkshire
28-10-09, 08:56
It's in the small print (t & c) Daphne - clause 6, I think.

Jay

Durham Lady
28-10-09, 12:45
Have just read through everything, so by first saying Unlimited Access to get people interssted they are being less than truthful by later saying you are limited to 5000 credits on a rolling 3 months.
You can't say unlimited access then put a limit on it. Well obviously you can because they have but I think it sucks.

I'll stick to Ancestry.

maggie_4_7
28-10-09, 12:53
Have just read through everything, so by first saying Unlimited Access to get people interssted they are being less than truthful by later saying you are limited to 5000 credits on a rolling 3 months.
You can't say unlimited access then put a limit on it. Well obviously you can because they have but I think it sucks.

I'll stick to Ancestry.

I think you're right their marketing ploy of unlimited access isn't really unlimited access because of the limit they impose in their small print in their T and Cs.

Maybe FMP should change their marketing spiel and actually say 'unlimited access up until 5,000 credits on a rolling 3 month period'.

Janet in Yorkshire
28-10-09, 13:12
Agreed, Daphne & Maggie - I would have been happy with "the sub gets you an allowance of an average of 5000 credits per month, taken over a 3 month period."
We would all know exactly where we stand.
Even happier if they had popped on a counter (as they do when you buy credits) so that we could keep a tally as we went along!

Jay

Christine in Herts
28-10-09, 14:59
...
Even happier if they had popped on a counter (as they do when you buy credits) so that we could keep a tally as we went along!

Jay

Now that's a seriously good idea!

(I think the use of the word "unlimited" by internet-linked businesses appears to be diferent from the usual dictionary definition! - thinking of internet access for some ISPs, for instance.)

Christine