New and bamboozled

[erin]

NEW and Confused

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Hello all and a cry for assistance. I have been researching my family in Australia ,Ireland and France and now it has led me to the UK. I have looked at the FreeBMD indexes and feel I have gone wrong somewhere. I have a name and a birth year and I want to find the parents. I have found a number of entries that match my g-grandfather but how can I tell for sure if the mother and/or father is not named. Have I missed something? Is there any way to find out who the parents were. They didn't register a birth without registering the parents - did they?

I have his name and marriage cert and death details but one says born in Oz(can't find that) and one says England. His parents are named but can't find them either in OZ. This tracking back to England. John William PEARCE b 1865, Father: John PEARCE Mother: Lucy BELL

Hope you can Help an Ozzie living in the UK

My names are PEARCE/BELL/NOBLE/ANDERSON/CONNOLLY/MILNE/BARRY et al

[tessie31082]

Hello and welcome! I am fairly new to this as well. However, do you know where in England he was supposedly born or what his parents d.o.b and p.o.b were?

Tessie
P.s You will find many on here who are exceptionally helpful and nice. They will be able to give you some great advice

[Mary from Italy]

Hi Erin,

I'm afraid the FreeBMD and Ancestry BMD indexes don't give parents' names - you don't know how lucky you are with Australian records The only way of getting the parents' names is to buy the cert (£7.00) unless you can find a baptism (some are online, depending on the area) or you can pinpoint them in the censuses.

Does the cert that says born in England give the birthplace? Does the death cert say how long he'd been in the colony?

[erin]

Hi, what a friendly lot you are. I will not ever complain about OZ records again after knowing that you can find a birth but there are no related parents to reference.
I do not know how long he had been in the colony. The death record (should I buy it for $30) might or might not say. His marriage cert says he was born in Goulburn(NSW) but there is nothing even near it in the indexes. Passenger lists have not been helpful as there were quite a few John Pearces but the details were not enough to pinpoint it. The Census were all destroyed until 2000. No real electoral rolls until 1903. The marriage cert says he is born 1865. As I can't find anything in OZ I have gone with thecemetery records (not a death certificate) that says he was born England. My g-grandmother who married him in QLD has French/Irish parents who are just as troublesome to track!
He could have come via USA,NZ, CANADA - who knows now He was a fisherman which is very tenous clue. Majority were farmers and miners and labourers. In fact he drowned fishing off the coast of QLD. PEARCE seems to be a CORNISH name - fishing? Could be a link?

Ever hopeful Erin

[Mary from Italy]

I've just been having a quick look - there's no marriage listed on FreeBMD for John Pearce and Lucy Bell, and no child with roughly the right birthdate and parents in the 1871 census. There is a John Pearce of the right age with parents John and Lucy in the 1881 census, but the names of both father and son are clearly shown as John A Pearce.

I can't see a death for John in NSW - when did he die? Personally I'd splash out on the death cert, because it should give his birthplace and parents' names, although their accuracy obviously depends on the informants' knowledge. It should also say how long he'd been in Aus if he was born elsewhere.

That being said, I would think the birthplace given on the marriage cert is more likely to be accurate than the death cert, because he would have given the information himself.

Bear in mind that civil registration had only just started in 1865, and the online records aren't 100% complete. Might be worth contacting the Goulburn library or the local churches to see if they have any baptism records, although they don't contain as much information as an actual birth certificate.

If you need to get NSW certs, a transcription from an authorised agent costs much less than a cert from the BDM registry, as you may know.

[erin]

A bit more. He always went by JOHN WILLIAM PEARCE. Said born 1865, married 1889 in Charters Towers Queensland. Died 1921 off Magnetic Island Queensland, drowned fishing on his boat. Married Margaret Noble in Ch.Towers. My family who are not very helpful on family history appear to know nothing of his family PEARCE. The cemetery records just say born England. Marriage certificate says Goulburn. He seemed to just appear in Charters Towers. So far I can find nothing of his past or family.

:p

[erin]

I have been through the NSW, QLD some VIC , SA, WA indexes. No birth for him anywhere. Not much for Goulburn online so may have to contact them.

I cannot find marriage for Bell and Pearce in Australia either or death records also or any births with these parents names. I started to think maybe he was born England. There is always the doubt about the names they used isn't there. He may have taken the John William name but may not have been born that way. May have been William John or just John etc. It is also odd that Charters Towers is a few hundred miles inland and he fished on the coast. All of the marriage and death info is 100% certified. My mother can recount all that and I have marriage cert and inquest details also. Prior to 1889 is the mystery.

[Mary from Italy]

Only one name stands out in the NSW BDM index: a John G Pearce born to John and Lucy in Orange in 1874. He would've been a bit young to marry in 1889, though.

Oddly enough it says on my grandmother's death cert that she was born in Goulburn, yet I have her birth cert and she was born in central Sydney. Goodness knows where the informant (my uncle) got that from.

[Mary from Italy]

A John Pearce married Lucy Derrett in Orange, so I guess that family's irrelevant.

[Harrys mum]

Hello Erin and Welcome.

Just because the Qld index doesn't have his birth, doesn't mena he wasn't born in Qld. Most of my lot are Qld born and I've only just moved over the border.

You could apply for his birth cert in Qld with the info you have from his marriage cert. Enclose a photocopy of his marriage cert.
In the date of birth section, put the year..
Where they mention "search fees" write a little note saying whether you want them to search outside that year or not.

AND............

Make sure you write on the form that you want the parents' marriage details. They will type them on the back of the cert......just the date and place (provided it was in Qld).

I have found two rellies that wy who were not on the index.
Good Luck.

[Harrys mum]

PS.....pressed submit too soon.

I was going to add...........you can do the same for NSW....just not through the online facility.

[Christine in Herts]

Welcome to FTF!

I tried putting Goulburn into Google maps, starting in UK. It just jumped to NSW. On that basis, I'd say that his parents must have named their house "England" or something!

And, yes, Pearce is a name found in the SW - Devon as well as Cornwall.

Christine

[erin]

Mary from Italy, You sure seem to know your apples about Oz research!! You must have a big Oz family!

I wonder if Goulburn was a euphemism for something. I was also thinking convict but born 1865 is a bit late for that! I will have to pay the $34 for the death certificate. Qld is so expensive and they won't allow transcription at all!! I am using a NSW transcription agent now for the NOBLE family (FRENCH).

[erin]

Mary, Thinking about the Goulburn and your family. There is a Goulburn Street in the main centre of Sydney. I have seen birth records for Goulburn Street and there was a church (now gone) St Francis which would i think have been RC. I was thinking that Gouldburn could be a hospital etc. I remembered that of course central Sydney does have Goulburn and it would have been a residential area in the past. So maybe she wasn't so out there after all.

Thanks Harrys mum for the info about births not on registers . It works for NSW as well ? I was considering Ask a Librarian but am not sure ifthey deal with BMD.

[Mary from Italy]

Does Lucy Bell's name also appear on the marriage cert? Just curious, because that Lucy Pearce née Derrett died in Qld.

[Mary from Italy]

Mary, Thinking about the Goulburn and your family. There is a Goulburn Street in the main centre of Sydney. I have seen birth records for Goulburn Street and there was a church (now gone) St Francis which would i think have been RC. I was thinking that Gouldburn could be a hospital etc. I remembered that of course central Sydney does have Goulburn and it would have been a residential area in the past. So maybe she wasn't so out there after all.

Ah, that's probably it, thanks.

I was considering Ask a Librarian but am not sure ifthey deal with BMD.

I don't think so (although Libby will know better than me), but they can do electoral roll look-ups.

[Mary from Italy]

Mary from Italy, You sure seem to know your apples about Oz research!! You must have a big Oz family!

Yes, my dad was Australian, so half my tree's over there.

I will have to pay the $34 for the death certificate. Qld is so expensive and they won't allow transcription at all!! I am using a NSW transcription agent now for the NOBLE family (FRENCH).

What a pity he died in Qld rather than NSW - that does make it expensive.

[erin]

Yes Lucy Bell appears as his mother on his marriage certificate. I will check this Lucy out. Thanks.

[Mary from Italy]

She married a John Cook in Qld in 1891 and died in 1896. However, if the mother's name is shown on the marriage cert as Bell, that's likely to be correct, and I can't see a Bell-Derrett connection anywhere.

[Mary from Italy]

Just been looking at John William on the 1903 electoral roll. He's in Charters Towers, and there's a Henry Derrett Pearce (son of John and Lucy, I think) living in the same district. I don't see how these Derretts can be connected with your Pearces, but it's irritating how the name keeps cropping up.