Can I find out....

[shirleymay]

Hi folk's

Just received Death cert. for ancestor, 1845 in Kidderminster. Cause of death given 'Not Known'. Surely some-one must have had an idea. Would it be possible to find out?

Shirley

[Olde Crone Holden]

Shirley

No, not really, unfortunately. Death Registration was in its infancy in 1845 and no medical opinion was necessary - you literally just went to the registrar, said someone had died, and the registrar asked you what you thought they died of!

The system was wide open to abuse, and to covering up murder, so the law was changed in 1875 and a doctor's medical certificate of death was required from then on in order to register a death.

In fact, few people could afford a doctor in 1845 and even if they had, he probably wouldn't have had a clue what the person died of unless it was blindingly obvious.

OC

[Little Nell]

If the person was found dead, without a post-mortem they wouldn't necessarily know anyway. Not sure they would have been as keen on pms then anyway.

[shirleymay]

Thought that might be the case. She was 55, her husband followed 9yrs later & looking closely I see it say's 'Dysentry' certified.
Never noticed that before on my other cert's my oldest being 1838. Having checked them all again (45) I've 1 from Worcs 1849 with no column for Cause of Death. Earlist certified is 1852. Later ones have Doc's name on.
Do we read without seeing I ask myself.

Many thank's O.C

[Anne in Carlisle]

Do we read without seeing I ask myself.

LOL, Shirley. And sometimes we 'read' what is not there but is what we hoped WOULD be there! :emb:

Anne

[Vicky the Viking]

<snip>

In fact, few people could afford a doctor in 1845 and even if they had, he probably wouldn't have had a clue what the person died of unless it was blindingly obvious.

OC

must confess to being surprised to see, in 1878, a rellie dying (in the workhouse, which I suppose was actually the only available infirmary) of cancer of the uterus. She was 46.

She had had an illegitimate child when she was 17, and I wondered whether in those days they could distinguish between cervical & endometrial cancer. There was no pm. The death was certified by a FRCS, but this was in Morpeth, which I suspect was still regarded as the back woods as far as cutting-edge medical knowledge was concerned.

[Vicky the Viking]

Do we read without seeing I ask myself.

Its amazing how often I go back over old notes or certificates and pick up on something I hadn't noticed, or thought about much, at the time.

Having spent ages going through the LMA stuff, my 2xgt gran's death on 12th Feb from "Peritonitis 6 days" - 4 days after her son was baptised - makes me think the 2 events were connected. This was in 1858, and it was "certified" but no doctor's name is given.

[shirleymay]

Thank's to you all for the interesting comment's.

Shirley

[Uncle John]

must confess to being surprised to see, in 1878, a rellie dying (in the workhouse, which I suppose was actually the only available infirmary) of cancer of the uterus. She was 46.

I have one of the same vintage. Her husband died a few years earlier in the asylum of "general paralysis" (i.e. syphilis) so I wonder if the wife did too and the doctor made something up.

[Vicky the Viking]

I have one of the same vintage. Her husband died a few years earlier in the asylum of "general paralysis" (i.e. syphilis) so I wonder if the wife did too and the doctor made something up.

I don't doubt she had "women's problems" of some sort - just wondered how precise the cause of death was!
Her husband was still alive -and she left 10 children, the youngest being only 7. The youngest children were brought up by their half-sister (the illegitimate one) who was married by then. I have no idea exactly what happened, but the husband seems to have gone off on his own somewhere. He is on the 1881 census about 20 miles away but I haven't managed to find him after that.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Vicky

I think terminal cancer of the uterus is unmistakable, even back then. But by that time, what started as maybe say, cancer of the cervix, had invaded all her other organs, including her uterus.

The doctor who certified her death would only be looking for the most obvious cause of death and who would have an interest in arguing with him? Certainly not the poor woman's family, who wouldn't dare to argue with a doctor!

OC

[Helen Smith Too]

I have one from 1846 where a woman of 57 died of 'Disease of the Womb, duration of disease, uncertain'. Her husband died in 1849 of 'disease of the Prostrate Gland - 7 years'.

And another from 1857 where the woman of 79 died of 'disease of the Pylorus'. I had to look that one up. The pylorus is more or less where the stomach joins the intestines. Who goes looking for that in a 79 year old? There must have been a PM to be that precise, surely.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Helen

You are assuming it WAS precise, lol!

Disease of the pylorus might be the conclusion the doctor came to because she was vomiting and appeared to have an obstruction.

Post mortems were hardly ever carried out before the 1870s, unless murder (poisoning) was suspected - people had a religious and superstitous feeling about post mortems.

OC