Illegitimate Grandmother

[kathyhpink]

My Grandmother was illegitimate and was so ashamed that she tore up her birth certificate!

Now I have no idea what her real surname was. On her wedding certificate, it is down as Bishop, which was the name of the man who brought her up, along with her brothers and sisters. Together with two other possible surnames (Lee and Hardy) I haven't been able to find a record of her birth certificate.

Now, how do you go about finding someone's birth certificate if you don't have their surname? Is it an impossible task?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The marriage registration for Mr Bishop should give you maiden name of gt-gdma.

Jay

[kathyhpink]

She had Bishop down as her maiden name, but we now know that wasn't her real name. Her mother (my great-grandmother) was not married to my step great-grandfather.

[Darksecretz]

I'm a little bit confused,

what have the names Lee & Hardy got to do with it?

what does the marriage cert actually say please, if you have a copy can you post it onsite? cropped so we can see what you mean.

[Jessbowbag]

any siblings?

tell us who what where & when that you do know and lets see what can be found

all the names you know and a location please

[Darksecretz]

sorry different tack here.. what was her mothers name please.. this might help in locating her.

[maggie_4_7]

If you grandmother used the name Bishop and that was her mother's eventual husband's name who was probably a father to your grandmother. What Janet in Yorkshire has said if you find the marriage between your grandmother's mother and Bishop you will find out your grandmother's mother's maiden name which is probably what your grandmother was registered as.

[maggie_4_7]

She had Bishop down as her maiden name, but we now know that wasn't her real name. Her mother (my great-grandmother) was not married to my step great-grandfather.

Do you know what your great grandmother's surname was?

[kathyhpink]

Sorry this is rather confusing. I'll scan the marriage certificate when I get home tonight. My gt-gmother's name was Lydia (maiden name we thought Hardy, but her partner/husband - can't find a record of any marriage - put Lydia Hardie on one of his army records and Lydia Lee on another as his next of kin!), which is why it's confusing. Partner/hubbie's name was definitely Ralph Bishop. That's why I've looked under the three surnames for my grandmother.

Gt-gm was born in 1884 and died 3 June 1950 and is buried at Nunhead Cemetry, London. Ralph Bishop died around 1932

My grandmother had siblings - Ralph, Lydia, Maud, Joseph

The area we are looking at is London (Lambeth Camberwell and Southwark areas).

[Olde Crone Holden]

When was your grandmother born and what was her first name?

OC

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think this may be the army record Kathy is referring to?

- Ancestry.co.uk

Surname of Ralph's nearest friend is Leave/Hard

Jay

[Darksecretz]

Jay

I have just been looking at this, do you think that the name Leave could be Leake? and that is why the 'k' is over the top of it?

and also where the childs name is, it says something like

'???? of illeg children ??? then under that it says 30/11/18? might be 15.

and then up the side 'verified by cert'

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think it says
b/c (birth cert) of illeg childn returned 30/11 either 15 or 18

ETA - having read on, duplicate sheets are clearer and I'm sure the date is 30/11/15

(Ralph enlisted Jan 1915)

Jay

[Darksecretz]

yep that looks pretty bob on to me..

all we need now is kathy to come back and say yay or nay...

[Milly Molly Mandy]

I had a similar problem with my grandfather, who I believed was brought up from very young by a stepdad. I didn't think I'd ever manage to trace his birth cert.

However, 1911 census gave me estimated birth years for his half-siblings & I was able to order one of their birth certs, which in turn gave me their mum's maiden name. I knew when gdad had been born and also a pretty certain idea of where, so I took a chance that he was registered under mum's maiden name & that really narrowed the possibilities. I was able to ask gro to do some checking on mother's name & send me a cert.


It turned out that g-gma Jane had been born a DAVIES, married a DAVIES & then run away - from Bangor, North Wales to South Wales - with another DAVIES. I'm still amazed I cracked that one!

[Darksecretz]

Hayley,

every cloud HAS a silver lining :smilee:

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Kathy, was your grandma born in Camberwell Reg dist in 1923?
Was her sister M*** born in 1921 and brother J***** in late 1919/early 1920?

If so, there are three children with these forenames, registered in Camberwell dist, with the surname Bishop, mmn Hards (Hurds in the case of the boy.)

Hards would seem to fit with the army record.

There is also a birth reg for Lydia Hards Dec qtr 1883, St Saviour reg dist.

Could this be the family you are looking for?

Jay

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oooh, well done Janet, that looks very convincing!

OC

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think kathy's request is linked to an earlier thread about this family :-

http://www.familytreeforum.com/research-qs/52587-newspaper-archives.html

Jay

[Darksecretz]

certainly looks like it Jay, well done you! :smilee:

just need Kathy to come back now and confirm.