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**Olde Crone Holden** · 14-09-09, 10:30

I don't know about Master Tobacconists, but maybe there WAS such a thing, if you think about it. Tobacco was more "sophisticated" back then, there being hundreds of different blends etc.

But he may just have been bigging himself up - Master in as much as he was an employer, rather than a qualified trade.

If he really was an apprenticed tobacconist though, I'd be looking for signs of him in the West Indies etc. Where better to learn the trade of tobacconist than on a tobacco plantation.

Another thought - he probably served a pauper's apprenticeship, paid for by the workhouse. You could follow that up and see if there are any surviving records. Pauper's apprenticeships were for 10 or 14 years rather than the usual seven.

OC

**clematised** · 14-09-09, 10:47

YouTube - Steven Books: What is a Tobacco Master Blender

I just found a UTube video description of the title which will explain to you what a Master Tobacconist is/does

Edna

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 10:52

Thanks for your thoughts, OC.

Your idea about the West Indies is an interesting one and worth pursuing.

I had wondered if he was making himself grander than he actually was. He certainly would have aspired to do well as his father was a gunsmith with some guns still surviving, and his father's family from Huntingdon were by no means rich but nevertheless comfortably off and owned property.

His will might also hold some clues - he left £1,110-13-11 - £1,094-1-3 net. (1881)

He obviously had "stocks, funds, shares and securities" and also shipping interests.

"I direct that my trustees shall sell and convert my personal trust property not consisting of monies invested in Stocks funds shares or securities yielding income (other than personal securities) or in Ships Steamers or other Vessels or parts or shares thereof (hereinafter called “Shipping Property”) and Shall at their discretion either get in the monies invested as last aforesaid ...."

I think I shall have to contact Whitby Archives and see what they know about him. He also had two houses (which he didn't live in) in Whitby.

OH's second cousin talks of him as "Tobacconist and Shipping Agent" but I know he doesn't have much more information than I do.

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 10:58

Edna, thanks for the link. It seems he would have had to have learnt a fair amount.

I wonder if the title "Master Tobacconist" was actually conferred upon him or whether he awarded it to himself!

**margaretmarch** · 14-09-09, 11:12

I have a Master Fish Curer in my OH's tree and as far as I can gather it just meant he employed people to help with the curing and selling.
Margaret

**Darksecretz** · 14-09-09, 11:32

Elizabeth,

is that your tree on ancestry? it has a very nice picture of him on it. :smilee:

- Ancestry.co.uk

**James** · 14-09-09, 11:35

Maybe their are records of Tobacconist kept ? a GUILD if the is a title of Master Tobacconist?

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 11:49

Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

Elizabeth,

is that your tree on ancestry? it has a very nice picture of him on it. :smilee:

- Ancestry.co.uk

Not my tree - but I have this photo (it is a brooch and another family member has it).

My daughter's tree on Ancestry has the same photo (it is a private tree).

**Darksecretz** · 14-09-09, 12:00

ahh I see..

perhaps the next course of action would be to look at passenger lists? to see if he really did go abroad to learn his trade?

**Olde Crone Holden** · 14-09-09, 12:20

The shipping connection is interesting and adds weight to the theory that he spent some time abroad on a tobacco plantation.

(Well, it does to ME, lol!)

OC

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 12:44

Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post

The shipping connection is interesting and adds weight to the theory that he spent some time abroad on a tobacco plantation.

(Well, it does to ME, lol!)

OC

OC, I suppose if he owned or had shares in ships there might be some records. Another reason for me to contact Whitby Archives. They must have lots of shipping details. :smilee:

**Olde Crone Holden** · 14-09-09, 13:04

Elizabeth

Have you tried a good old-fashioned google? I have ancestors who were involved in shipping (as merchants) and I found quite a lot of stuff on A2A and TNA, plus various newspaper reports via google.

OC

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 13:11

OC, I have googled until I am blue in the face! I have tried all sorts of permutations (bearing in mind how long it took for the account of the death of Charles Lamb to pop up)!

Don't read this if you are eating or about to eat!!:emb:
The Medical magazine - Google Books

One day...

**Janet in Yorkshire** · 14-09-09, 13:44

Elizabeth, I would certainly write to Whitby archives, to inquire about shipping cargoes and ownership, if nothing else.
I am wondering if his tobacco stock from across the Atlantic would arrive at a west coast port (e.g Liverpool) and then be transported by rail, or whether it would arrive at a larger east coast port (e.g Newcastle or Hull) and then be transported by smaller vessel.
His shares in shipping sounds interesting and I would have expected there to be some mention of this interest in local newspapers, directories etc.

Jay

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 13:59

Thanks, Janet.

I have just phoned Whitby Archives, but I have to phone back on Tuesday-Friday between 10 am and 1 pm to the Library. I am hoping they will be able to help.

No-one else in the family really seems to have investigated where he was for three decades, although he could have come back as early as 1861 and just missed the census. As he owned at least two properties in Whitby there must be records of this too.

**Janet in Yorkshire** · 14-09-09, 14:20

Elizabeth,
Have a look at the catalogue for the North Yorkshire Records Office at Northallerton. They have documents for Whitby shipping.
You may want to contact them too.

With regards to his property in Whitby, the NYRO does have a huge collection of annual catalogues /indexes (??) which record deeds/land transactions (???) or something of that ilk. However, I think you would perhaps have to search this section yourself - a bit like going through the wills calenders.

Jay

**Elizabeth Herts** · 14-09-09, 14:27

Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post

Elizabeth,
Have a look at the catalogue for the North Yorkshire Records Office at Northallerton. They have documents for Whitby shipping.
You may want to contact them too.

With regards to his property in Whitby, the NYRO does have a huge collection of annual catalogues /indexes (??) which record deeds/land transactions (???) or something of that ilk. However, I think you would perhaps have to search this section yourself - a bit like going through the wills calenders.

Jay

Ooh, I can see a trip to Yorkshire beckoning! (OH has more or less retired now, a decision he made a month or so back, so we are free to go on a lot more forays! He is quite happy as long as we don't spend too long in the records offices!)

Jay, your information is very useful, many thanks. :smilee:

**Christine in Herts** · 14-09-09, 17:31

If he owned property - does he show up in PO directories for the period?

(Thinking of Historical Directories online)

Christine

**clematised** · 14-09-09, 18:37

Just had a look for him on Emigration and found a William Lamb on the Australian Convict Transportation register from yorkshire, Ship Marion
Convicted Date: 12 Jul 1843
Voyage Date: 22 Nov 1843
Colony: Van Dieman's Land

Place of Conviction: Yorkshire, England he was given seven years.
Dont know if he is yours though

Edna

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