Firstly, I'm reseraching my mother's side of the family - The Cliffords. So far I've found out quite a bit and some wonderful old photos but I'm not stuck.
1837 - William Clifford was born in Ireland, I'm not sure which county. 1858 - He married Ann Jane Mercer in Scotland 1858-1881 - They have a total of 8 children together.
I'd really like to find out when he died, so far I haven't got a record of his death. He lived in Lanarkshire with his Wife Scotland as did his Children.
William's father, Edward Clifford is listed on William's death marriage Cert. as being deceased (1858) as is his mother, Bridget. So far I think I have found one census containing Edward in 1841 living in tennement blocks in Glasgow living with complete strangers but his family had began by this point as his son was born 1837. If anyone could find him on the 1851 census or a record of his death that would be greatly appreciated. I'm also eager to find out who his children were - They almost certainly lived in Lanarkshire, Scotland too. I have no birth cert. for Edward but from working with various dates he was born 1800-1801.
One further thing is a brother of my great grandfather, John who a few of my elder relatives definitely remember as a younger brother of my great grandfather William but I haven't found any records of him. He is not on the 1901 census with the rest of the family. My great grandfather was born 1889 in Lanarkshire, his father is Hugh and his mother is Isabella. I haven't had any access to the 1911 Scottish census and that may be why I haven't found him but I thought he would have been born before then if he was indeed William's brother.
Anyway, I hope I've given enough information on this - I wasn;t really sure what to put in.
Cheryl, I can't find his death on Scotland's People. I've checked 1881 - 1940 which allowed him to be up to 103. I used Soundex on Clifford and William as a forename. I then tried no forename at all with Soundex on the surname again and still came up with nothing. I've even tried 1837 +/- 10 years for date of birth and zilch! Do you think he may have been over in Ireland visiting family when he died?
All I know about William and Ann Jane is an old family fable "Mercer's Millions" where Ann Jane had millions of pounds and died and this money seems to have vanished, no one has claimed it. Appart from that I know pretty much nothing about them. Even if he was visiting family in Ireland when he died it would be strange that there is no record of Ann Jane's death either.
I did find a record of a William Clifford's death in 1898 aged 49 but the dates wouldn't match up atall.
I also found a record of an Ann Jane Clifford who died in 1898 aged 55 which seems much more plausible so I'm thinking that's her but I really doubt that the William I found is him.
What location was Ann Jane's 1898 death recorded in? Also where did you get the date of 1858 for William and Ann's marriage?
Will have to go now. Battery is getting low and bed is calling! Hopefully someone with FMP will spot your thread and can check outgoing passenger lists for you. i've only got ancestry.
Last edited by GallowayLass; 13-09-09, 00:30.
Reason: add
I had a few credits left and checked out the William you weren't sure of for 1898. It is the one you want. Again his deceased wife Ann Jane's surname is MARCER.
He died at 3am on 3 December 1898 in 1 Double Brick Row, Carfin, District of Holytown. Occupation: coalminer. Status: widower of Ann Jane MARCER. Age at death 49 years. Parents: Edward CLIFFORD farmer (deceased) and Sybil CLIFFORD ms TRAINOR (deceased). Cause of death: heart disease 1 year as certified by J FORREST M.D. Informant: Hugh CLIFFORD (son), Benburl Cottage, Carfin, present at the death. Registered at Holytown 3 December 1898
Hugh thinks his Granny's name was Sybil, not Bridget. Was Ann's mother called Sybil? and Hugh put the wrong Granny's name?
There is also another 1898 CLIFFORD death in Holytown of John CLIFFORD aged 0. Did Ann die in childbirth?
Last edited by GallowayLass; 13-09-09, 11:49.
Reason: address correction
Just noticed the names in your sig Galloway Lass, A Miss Mitchell lived next door to my family from Lanarkshire and another Mitchell married into our family. Just thought I'd let you know!
And thanks for having a look for me!
That must be The William I'm looking for then, strange that the dates don't match up and I'm not sure of the name of Ann Jane's mother, I've only really gone down the Clifford side of the tree so far. She may have died in Childbirth but they already had a son named John born 1879 and it's unlikely that they name another John. I obtained a census for an Edward Clifford in 1851 living with his wife and two children in Lanarkshire and I worked out he'd have been born 1826 (in Ireland), I was wondering if this is maybe a brother of William.
The bit about Hugh registering Sybil instead of Bridget may have been a mistake as he was a bit of a character who liked a few whisky's.
Last edited by Cheryl94; 13-09-09, 12:28.
Reason: Addition.
The Edward Clifford I found in Bothwell, Holytown 1851 has a wife Ellen and not Bridget, so I have my doubts he's your Edward. I can't find a match with the right couple in 1841 or 1851.
I've checked out CLIFFORD deaths in Lanarkshire 1855 (when our certs. began to 1858). There are no Edwards, Bridgets or Sybils and all the entries are in Glasgow City.
There aren't any matches in the new OPR deaths either, again all the entries are in Glasgow City itself.
You could try and see if there are any Bothwell/Holytown/Carfin MIs available which would help you. If Edward and Bridget died there pre 1855 then you might be lucky that there is a gravestone inscription. These are the folks that will know;
Motherwell Heritage Centre
1 High Road
Motherwell
Lanarkshire ML1 3HU
Tel: (01698) 251000
Do you have Ann Jane's own family in 1841 and 51? If not here they are;
1841 Parish: Barony; ED: 10A; Page: 28; Line: 875; Roll CSSCT1841_99-0167
1851 there's just her and her mother living with relatives Parish: Bothwell; ED: 17; Page: 3; Line: 19; Roll 454
This looks like William in 1851 Parish: Old Monkland; ED: 8; Page: 2; Line: 13; Roll 374 his age seems to vary in the censuses. I can't see him in 1841.
Have you checked out trees held on ancestry? It seems you have relations in South Africa descended from Margaret, one of William and Ann's children. The tree owner is Sean S**** his username is Amaspain but last login was 6 months ago.
I go to Motherwell Heritage Centre regularly as it's pretty near and my aunt works in the cemetery department on NL Council so all gravestones etc. have been checked with no luck. I'll be going into her office during the September weekend so I'll check again for myself and see if I can find any other burials.
I can't thank you enough for helping me out with this!
I've not come across him on ancestry but I'll have a look for him
Just noticed the names in your sig Galloway Lass, A Miss Mitchell lived next door to my family from Lanarkshire and another Mitchell married into our family. Just thought I'd let you know!
And thanks for having a look for me!
That must be The William I'm looking for then, strange that the dates don't match up and I'm not sure of the name of Ann Jane's mother, I've only really gone down the Clifford side of the tree so far. She may have died in Childbirth but they already had a son named John born 1879 and it's unlikely that they name another John. I obtained a census for an Edward Clifford in 1851 living with his wife and two children in Lanarkshire and I worked out he'd have been born 1826 (in Ireland), I was wondering if this is maybe a brother of William.
The bit about Hugh registering Sybil instead of Bridget may have been a mistake as he was a bit of a character who liked a few whisky's.
I came across this by accident and I know it's a long shot that you still use this site cheryl94 my grandfather was the son of Annie McInally. Annie was nee mcQuade who was the daughter of Ann Jane Mercer.
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