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Do I pay the 100 Euro ransom?

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  • Do I pay the 100 Euro ransom?

    I made a breakthough in April finally getting a County of birth in Ireland for my GGfather William Carroll b1857 in Waterford. I have taken time out since then and now ready to try and dig deeper.
    Waterford records are not on line. I have contacted Waterford Heritage Centre who reply as follows....

    We could do a research project in the Co Waterford area for the family of William Carroll.
    We conduct commissioned research on the Civil & Church records pre -1911. If an initial search is successful the Report would include the date of birth or baptism of the person sought, the parents names and their date of marriage together with the dates of birth of siblings. It would also include a determination of the place of origin of the person involved.

    Our fee for this research is ¤100 (Euro) or other currency equivalent.


    All I know is that William Carroll was born in 1857. His father was a 'deceased labourer' (also William) when he married in 1879 in Liverpool. I have not traced any siblings. A fair chance Williams mother was called Bridget.

    Anyone else tried this? Any alternative methods I should consider? Is it worth a shot? Any advice would be welcome
    John

    Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

  • #2
    I think the relevant parish records may well be at the national Library in Dublin.
    There is no guarantee the researcher will find anything in the time included with the first £100.

    One option would be to watch the R***a** website and get yourself a cheap flight to Dublin for a day. (OH recently went from Bristol to Dublin for the day - £10 all in.)

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    Comment


    • #3
      Are we talking Waterford City or County? R C or Cof I?
      Glen

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
        I think the relevant parish records may well be at the national Library in Dublin.
        There is no guarantee the researcher will find anything in the time included with the first £100.

        One option would be to watch the R***a** website and get yourself a cheap flight to Dublin for a day. (OH recently went from Bristol to Dublin for the day - £10 all in.)

        Jay
        I don't know the Parish... the 1911 census revealed Waterford and that could be County or City. I can get over to Dublin any time but would have to make a few enq to see if the records for Waterford are at the National Library.
        He was a RC. I will make some enq thank you
        John

        Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

        Comment


        • #5
          All parish records pre 1864 for RC are available to view at Dublin National Library. Equivalent Protestant parish records are at Dublin National Archives. Thre bad news is that unless you know the diocese you are looking for and roughly the areas, then you could be in for a long haul. Have you tried the online Griffiths records at Irish Origins to see if you can pinpoint the name to an area and preferably a townland? these are not too costly about £7 for 36 hours of searching around names and maps. There is also the free griffiths online though not all records are on this one. i will search out the website for you.

          Going through the National Heritage sites can be very costly and not always very lucrative. They claim to be able to find all your forebears but they are very much aimed at the Rich? American market so you sometimes have to wait a very long time, up to a couple of years and you cannot be totally sure that you have the right family in the end!! I had an Irish cousin who tacked some of mine on to her resaerch through the Heritage Centre in Tipperary. They came up with some of the tree but I have done more work myself. Sometimes if you reach a brick wall and just want £25 worth of work on one person may be worth going after but if you have alot I really think they just like to take your money! Dublin National Library also cross over to approx 1880and so into the Civil Registration area of 1864 onwards. If you are mainly searching post 1864 then you are best off going to the GRO in Dublin.

          By the way the initial search will throw up but very little, about one page and they used to charge £50 for that so if that has now gone to 100 euros wow that is a lot of money! A full report used to cost abot £300

          Janet
          Last edited by Janet; 22-08-09, 18:01.

          Comment


          • #6
            RC parishes in Waterford
            Co Waterford Roman Catholic Records
            Jean



            To forget your ancestors is to be a brook without a source, a tree without a root....

            Comment


            • #7
              Irish Origins website for Griffiths valuation

              Irish Genealogy Search - Irish Origins ancestor records and Ireland maps

              Free website for Griffiths Valuation



              Janet
              Last edited by Janet; 22-08-09, 18:31.

              Comment


              • #8
                i would say if you could, go to the irish national library. heritage centres are expensive, and you know you wont be getting a lot for your money.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why do people have to be so insulting when they disapprove of fees charged for a service.

                  This thread suggests a ransom has to be paid, not so.
                  The individual is at liberty to decide whether to take advantage of the service provided or ignore the service and find another route to his research.
                  The research centre involved has invested a large amount of time and money to set up the archive and provide the service and should be thanked for their efforts not belittled by such inane suggestions.

                  We as researchers may not like to pay fees for our research but we must understand that it takes huge amounts of both time and money to set up such archives and that money must come from somewhere.
                  Whether that money should be raised in taxes or recouped from the user is another question but it has to be provided somehow.
                  Cheers
                  Guy
                  Guy passed away October 2022

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've never heard anyone do anything but belittle one of these centres. It's not just the ridiculously high prices, the customer service is fairly constantly abysmal. I have never yet had anyone tell me they have been satisfied with price or service from an 'Irish Heritage Centre". I think Guy is far too generous in his asessment of them and the quality of work they do. My advice would be don't touch them with a barge pole. Go to Dublin yourself, pay a good and honest researcher to go for you, or alternatively some parishes have been filmed by the LDS, you may even be able to get hold of the film and view it at the centre local to you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dont pay the money.

                      you wouldnt buy a pig in a poke.
                      the meercat.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have no problem paying as I did at the Herts RO (HALS) when I first started but I prefer to do my own research. The thing I object to is that the Heritage Centres don't allow Joe Public in to access their records & they want to charge a lot of money before they know if they have anything for you.

                        At least the ROs in this country will do a free first lookup before they charge or will at least tell you if they have what you require.
                        Glen

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                        • #13
                          agreed. i wont pay for co.clare to get my families records. first of all it will cost $400 for a preliminary search, and they wont say what type of records they found concerning my family.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I will remind Guy and others that the Irish Heritage Centres were set up with the PARTIALLy completed records pulled together by the young unemployed of Ireland back in the 1970's which they did for free, but which system was paid for with EU money, that is by the money taken from the taxpayers of the rest of the EU to include Britain. The Heritage Centres have been making money ever since from this. It is not only the fact that you have to pay for the records and are unable to do your own research even when you go in person to the Heritage Centre, but they are also very INCOMPLETE, which I find is the biggest grumble. And until June of 2008 if you had Tipperary ancestors you were forced into going to the HC because the records were not available to you to research in person in Dublin. That has been redressed, and you can now do your own research on Tipperary ancestors at National Library Dublin. When my Irish cousin paid for research on her ancestors with some of mine from the HC, they only came up with ONE ancestor for my family, despite the fact I have found many since.

                            I have reached a point in my Irish research where I can just go back one more generation but a marriage of around 1825 is eluding me. Not to be found at the church or surrounding areas I had hoped, my possible only solution maybe to pay a HC about £25 to complete the circle. However, I will be going to Ireland next year so I will give The National Library one more go now that I can research Tipperary myself.

                            Janet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just a thought but when I had Irish ancestors who married in Liverpool the Records Office Liverpool were able to give me the parents first names of both partners. The marriage was in 1850's though
                              I emailed them and they emailed back and the information was free.

                              Dog's have Owners, Cats have Staff
                              It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thank you all very much for your thoughts on this one... sorry I was not available earlier to respond promptly. I value your imput and appreciate your time.
                                My heading for this thread did contain the word 'ransom' and was meant as an attention grabber to get some feedback.... cant see a single other word or phrase I used that suggests I was being rude to researchers.
                                I have food for thought from knowledgeable members and can now work on how to research further.... thank you
                                John

                                Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                  I will remind Guy and others that the Irish Heritage Centres were set up with the PARTIALLy completed records pulled together by the young unemployed of Ireland back in the 1970's which they did for free, but which system was paid for with EU money, that is by the money taken from the taxpayers of the rest of the EU to include Britain. The Heritage Centres have been making money ever since from this. It is not only the fact that you have to pay for the records and are unable to do your own research even when you go in person to the Heritage Centre, but they are also very INCOMPLETE, which I find is the biggest grumble. And until June of 2008 if you had Tipperary ancestors you were forced into going to the HC because the records were not available to you to research in person in Dublin. That has been redressed, and you can now do your own research on Tipperary ancestors at National Library Dublin. When my Irish cousin paid for research on her ancestors with some of mine from the HC, they only came up with ONE ancestor for my family, despite the fact I have found many since.

                                  I have reached a point in my Irish research where I can just go back one more generation but a marriage of around 1825 is eluding me. Not to be found at the church or surrounding areas I had hoped, my possible only solution maybe to pay a HC about £25 to complete the circle. However, I will be going to Ireland next year so I will give The National Library one more go now that I can research Tipperary myself.

                                  Janet
                                  On the other hand before the Heritage Centres were set up one had to have some idea what parish ones ancestors were baptised or married in. Get permission from the relevant Bishop to search the registers then spend days or weeks, at the National Library in Dublin, winding the microfilm to find the entry.

                                  The registers were not indexed, many records were and are in such poor condition one had to be very experienced to decipher them.

                                  I could be wrong but I believe quite a number of the Heritage Centres were formed by professionals before the government initiative to promote genealogical tourism.

                                  I also believe that at the Waterford Heritage Centre one can do one's own research (for a small fee), though this does not apply to all Heritage Centres.
                                  Cheers
                                  Guy
                                  Guy passed away October 2022

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This is possibly an irrelevant observation, but has to do with the feeling of being held to ransom.

                                    I found on the old A2A site, mention of a Will I desperately wanted. It was held by a firm of Solicitors in Salisbury.

                                    My daughter happened to be working in Salisbury and I asked her to nip along to the Solicitor and find out how much they wanted for a copy of it.

                                    They wanted £130 + vat. They justified this cost because "Someone has to go and find it, you know".

                                    I declined and fumed for a while. THEN - I found the Will on Lancashire Records Office site. Cost including postage - £5.

                                    In fact, the Will was a big disappointment and I would have been fit to be tied if I had paid £150+ for it.

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Guy,

                                      If you choose NOT to use the Heritage Centres as I have always chosen to do my own research, then the only way to research your Irish History has always been through Dublin National Library for RC records pre 1864 which only have the microfilm copies, as all pre 1864 records are still with all the churches all over Ireland. The readers vary and some are bad but many are OK. Some of the Cloyne records are very poor quality and many are missing, but many of these have not been indexed by the HC either, so spending money in this area would be a waste of money. This has always meant that you need to know where your ancestors are from in Ireland and knowing the county never was and still is not good enough, if you are looking for popular Irish names, whether you do your own research or whether you get the HC to do it for you. The only diocese you had to get permission from the Bishops were Kerry, Limerick and Cloyne. This was never arduous and Limerick dropped their demands on this many years ago as did Kerry. I had a letter flagged through from Cloyne 3 years ago which took one hour whilst I was at the Dublin National Library. This only left Cashel and Emly as being the awkward ones, where you could not view the records at all and could have been forced to go through the HC. Fortunately this last bar has now gone and the records can now be accessed through National Library. I got over it by visiting the place and church concerned where I found most of my baptisms but a few are missing and I think may be coming in from Kilkenny but the Tipperary HC do not cross over the border to Kilkenny hence my reluctance to pay for the research. In fact most HC will not cross borders into the next HC area so you could pay a lot of money and still end up with very little.

                                      I do not know the Waterford HC but I do know that Wexford, Tipperary Offaly, Cloyne, Laois, do not allow you to do your own research at their centres and I also know that other people have tried to do their own research in other areas and have been unable to do so so there are few Centres that willl allow you access.

                                      My gripe still is the fact that the HC's do NOT have all the records at their centres. The ONLy place where you will find ALL the records is at National Library Dublin.

                                      I have usually managed to read all the entries for my ancestors except the ones that were missing!

                                      I do not think these HC were there before the 1970's but there were some good family history associations at the time, most of which jumped on to the band wagon of moneymaking, though some have survived but very few.

                                      Janet
                                      Last edited by Janet; 23-08-09, 23:11.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        My major problem is that I only have a County of birth. William's wife Winifred Dean is shown on the same 1911 census as being from Roscommon.
                                        A bit more digging this evening has revealed the following information re Waterford Heritage and Gen Centre..... quote.

                                        For instance, the Waterford Heritage and Genealogical Centre has taken every entry in all the record books from the hundreds of parishes in the diocese of Waterford and Lismore and committed them to computer. For a fee, they will do search for you. It's best to have as much information as possible before you contact them. Search for Waterford Heritage Genealogy Centre.

                                        Most of the Church records up to 1880 are on microfilm and can be accessed at the National Library, Kildare Street, Dublin 2.


                                        (c/o guide to church records ballybegvillage dot com)

                                        It would seem that Waterford may have everything on computer. If they do then I would assume it would be searchable but like any other system it will only be as good as the information fed to the system.
                                        In the initial email they sent me they did say the could research Waterford County but I know all I would/could get back would be details of Williams baptism, parents and any siblings for the 100 Euros. Timescale is 4 to 6 weeks.
                                        I am now very tempted to go for it... if I did get the details they offer then it would be a huge step forward. If not.... it is unlikely I would have got them from Dublin anyway.
                                        Will sleep on it tonight.
                                        John

                                        Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

                                        Comment

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