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KaSte
Well done, I hope you manage to get a few walls knocked down.
Well done, I hope you manage to get a few walls knocked down.
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Elaine
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Woo Hoo, this is wonderful.
I nearly missed it too as I'd been at my Mum's since Friday (21st) so I didn't see that I'd won.
I'm now going to sort out my Brick Walls and get them posted.
Thanks all.
Kate -
Brick Wall 1:
Thomas STOWBRIDGE married Margaret ???
I know of 2 sons:
Maurice STOWBRIDGE b. 10 October 1841 in Liverpool
William STOWBRIDGE b. abt 1848 in Liverpool
I don't know for definite what their mothers surname is as I don't have a Birth Certificate for either.
I would like to know any more details of their parents, especially their mothers surname and their parents names, especially Thomas' parents.
I don't know why but my head goes blank when I'm trying to find any details of this branch and we also have a feeling that they came from Cumberland to Liverpool but we can't make the connection.Last edited by KaSte; 23-08-09, 21:47.Comment
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Now then, the other thing about this STOWBRIDGE family is that William STOWBRIDGE (son of Thomas and Margaret) married Margaret THOMAS (b.abt 1851 in Liverpool) in Liverpool on 29 November 1868. They had 9 children.
Out of these 9 children 4 of them changed their surname to CROSS.
We have no idea why but if anyone has any ideas on how we could find out then I would be delighted.
I spent 3 years researching CROSS before I found this out! :(Last edited by KaSte; 23-08-09, 21:50.Comment
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I have looked and looked in the census and freebmd but cant find anything, excepting a possible death registration for Maurice Stowbridge b 1841 (d 1923). There is a bit around for Maurice Stowbridge born 1836, but I take it that he is a different person.
I cannot see birth registrations for Maurice or William Stowbridge anywhere in Engand - could they have been born in Ireland ? a lot of Irish people moved to Liverpool and Manchester about the 1830=1840s.
DiDiane
Sydney Australia
Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne DawsonComment
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Just for reference - putting down what I can find at the moment which isn't a lot!
1871 census
RG10; Piece: 3818; Folio: 102; Page: 12
- Ancestry.co.uk
1881 census
RG11; Piece: 3710; Folio: 126; Page: 15
- Ancestry.co.uk
1891 census
RG12; Piece: 2992; Folio 25; Page 46
- Ancestry.co.uk
Still all Stowbridge - looking for the changes of name to Cross!Elaine
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No idea if this is useful - but I'll add it so Kate can comment when she comes online!
Trying to trace William Stowbridge in the census before his marriage, bearing in mind the use of the name Cross.
I have found this entry in 1861 which shows a William Cross born c1844, Liverpool - occupation Paper Hanger (same as William Stowbridge)
Class: RG9; Piece: 2650; Folio: 151; Page: 32;
- Ancestry.co.uk
Same family in 1851
HO107; Piece: 2185; Folio: 510; Page: 22
- Ancestry.co.uk
A possible marriage for Margaret
Marriages Jun 1845
Cross Thomas
Stowbridge Margaret
Liverpool 20 289
(Lancs BMD site shows the marriage took place at Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne)
William Cross found in the 1851/1861 census was born c1844
I am wondering if William Stowbridge was illegitimate - and although he used the Cross name when he was living at home, he used his birth name of Stowbridge in later years. The children may have followed suit, some choosing to use Stowbridge, others Cross.
Just a theory! :D
Problem is I cannot see where Maurice born 1841 comes into this!Elaine
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There does seem to be some conflicting information on Ancestry for this family - I really think you need to get some certificates to sort out what is correct and of course contact other people who have this family on their tree.
Searching Ancestry trees:
Working back from William Cross Stowbridge - who I am presuming is the William shown in your 1881 census, born c1872
Shows that the parents of William are William Gilbert Stowbridge (1845-1878) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Gilbert Stowbridge are given as John Stowbridge (1810-1880) and Eliza (1807-1883)
Interestingly William Gilbert Stowbridge seems to have died in New York (1878)
William Cross Stowbridge born 1871, parents William Stowbridge (1851-unknown) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Stowbridge are shown as Thomas (1826-unknown), mother unknown.Elaine
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I know of this family but can't connect them to my Tree yet.Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
Shows that the parents of William are William Gilbert Stowbridge (1845-1878) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Gilbert Stowbridge are given as John Stowbridge (1810-1880) and Eliza (1807-1883)
Interestingly William Gilbert Stowbridge seems to have died in New York (1878)Comment
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Originally posted by Smiley Sammy View Post
Do you know, for the life of me I can't remember why I have his full DOB.
I originally got told about the name change from a lovely lady called Eva and I think she may have told me his DOB but I'll go through my records and check but I haven't got a Birth Certificate for Maurice or William.Comment
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Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
I have their Marriage Certificate and guess what?? There's no father for Margaret!! :(Comment
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Thanks for the messages so far.
I have all the Census info about William and Maurice but just can't find their Birth info to get Certificates.
I also want to get the Marriage Certificate of their parents but don't know how to get it or where from.
Don't know if any of this will help but I'll put it in anyway.
Descendants of Thomas Stowbridge
1 Thomas Stowbridge
+Margaret ?
........ 2 Maurice Stowbridge b: 10 October 1841 in Liverpool, Lancashire d: Abt. 1894 in Liverpool, Lancashire
............ +Sarah J. Phillips b: Abt. 1838 in Liverpool, Lancashire
...................3 Anne Jane Stowbridge b: 1858 in Liverpool
....................... +James Mathias
...................3 Maurice Stowbridge b: 29 November 1860 in Liverpool, Lancashire,
....................... +Emily Nicholas b: Abt. 1860 in Salop Bishops Castle, Shropshire
...................3 John Stowbridge b: 1863
........ 2 William Stowbridge b: Abt. 1848 in Liverpool, Lancashire
............ +Margaret Thomas b: Abt. 1851 in Liverpool, Lancashire
...................3 Dacre Stowbridge b: Abt. 1870 in Liverpool d: 1882
...................3 William Cross Stowbridge b: Abt. 1871 in Liverpool d: 1 March 1925
....................... +Jane Reid b: Abt. 1866 in Liverpool
...................3 Henry Stowbridge (Cross) b: 7 January 1875 in Liverpool d: 30 September 1947
....................... +Mary Jane Miles b: Abt. 1877 in Liverpool d: 6 April 1913
...................3 Margaret Stowbridge b: Abt. 1878 in Liverpool
...................3 Sarah Stowbridge b: January 1878 d: March 1878
...................3 Hannah (Annie) Stowbridge (Cross) b: Abt. 1880 in Liverpool d: 1955
....................... +Constantine Edwards b: Abt. 1876 in West Derby, Liverpool
...................3 John Stowbridge b: Abt. 1883 in Liverpool
....................... +Emily Bairsto
...................3 Maurice Stowbridge (Cross) b: 1 February 1885 in Liverpool d: 18 September 1950
....................... +Emily Joseha Davis
...................3 Joseph Stowbridge (Cross) b: Abt. 1887 in West Derby, Liverpool d: 1899 in West Derby, Liverpool
So as you see, it's William and Maurice's birth details and their parents that are causing the Brick Wall but in all the Census' it says they were born in Liverpool.Last edited by KaSte; 25-08-09, 00:30.Comment
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This family is from the American STOWBRIDGE's that we can't find a connection to yet.Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View PostComment
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And this one is My Tree on Ancestry.Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
William Cross Stowbridge born 1871, parents William Stowbridge (1851-unknown) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Stowbridge are shown as Thomas (1826-unknown), mother unknown.
(But I'm not a full subscriber so I can't view any of the Ancestry links that are posted.)Comment
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You have a birth date of 1841 for Maurice, but his death registration gives his age as 58, making him born more like 1836. 1836 agrees more with the other records I found.
If he was born as early as 1836, there will be be no birth registration and you will have to look for a baptism in a parish register. But if William was born in 1848, he should have been registered, but I cannot find one. Neither can I find any census records for them before 1871. It would be strange if both 1851 and 1861 census are missing the pieces where they lived.
FMP is showing some 1841 census results for Thomas Stowbridge, but they don't show up on Ancestry.Diane
Sydney Australia
Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne DawsonComment
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.. which is why I suggested on post #9 that they may have been recorded as Cross in the 1851/1861 censusOriginally posted by dicole View Post
1851 census
Margt Cross 34
Harriett Cross 19
William Cross 7
Hanah Cross 4
Margt Cross 6 Mo
- Ancestry.co.uk
1861 census
Mgt Cross 46
Wm Cross 17 - born Liverpool, occupation paper hanger (occ. matches William Stowbridge in 1871 and we know there is a Cross surname connection somewhere)
Hannah Cross 14
Mgt Cross 11
- Ancestry.co.uk
... with a possible marriage on freeBMD of Margaret Stowbridge/Thomas Cross, 1845 June quarter, Liverpool, volume 20, page 289
- thus making William Stowbridge born c 1844 the illegitimate son of Margaret Stowbridge - but known as Cross in the 1851 and 1861 census, but then when he married he reverted to his birth name of Stowbridge.
What I cannot understand Kate is where you got this information from:
1 Thomas Stowbridge
+Margaret ?
........ 2 Maurice Stowbridge b: 10 October 1841 in Liverpool, Lancashire d: Abt. 1894 in Liverpool, Lancashire
............ +Sarah J. Phillips b: Abt. 1838 in Liverpool, Lancashire
........ 2 William Stowbridge b: Abt. 1848 in Liverpool, Lancashire
............ +Margaret Thomas b: Abt. 1851 in Liverpool, Lancashire
I cannot find any reference to Maurice which links him to brother William and parents Thomas Stowbridge/Margaret ?Elaine
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Originally posted by KaSte View PostOriginally posted by KaSte View PostAnd this one is My Tree on Ancestry.
Re the trees posted in #10
The worrying thing here is that these clearly aren't two different branches of the family.http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/363...on/-1313576441
Shows that the parents of William are William Gilbert Stowbridge (1845-1878) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Gilbert Stowbridge are given as John Stowbridge (1810-1880) and Eliza (1807-1883)
Interestingly William Gilbert Stowbridge seems to have died in New York (1878)
William Cross Stowbridge born 1871, parents William Stowbridge (1851-unknown) and Margaret Thomas (1851-unknown).
On this tree the parents of William Stowbridge are shown as Thomas (1826-unknown), mother unknown.
You both have the same family of Maurice (1860), Dacre (1870), William (1871), Henry (1875), Margaret (1878), Sarah (1878), Hannah/Annie (1878), John (1887) and Joseph (1887) - with parents William Stowbridge and Margaret Thomas.
However one of you has the grandparents as Thomas Stowbridge, wife unknown - and the other has the grandparents as John Stowbridge and Eliza - so one of you is wrong!
Without getting some certificates it is very difficult to say which was is right and which is wrong!Elaine
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Do you have anything for 1841, 1851 and 1861 - if so can you give some references?Originally posted by KaSte View PostElaine
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