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  • Solomon Smith help with date of death

    Hi my great grandfather Solomon Robert Smith was born 28/11/1895 in Limehouse in Stepney. I know that he married Isabella Ward on 25/2/1918 again in Stepney. I also know that he was alive on 24/10/1942 when his son (my grandfather) was married. I think he may have lived in Ilford in Essex as that was the address listed on my grandfathers marriage certificate. My father was born in 1947 and can vaguely remember a family trip when he was 5 years old or so to London and has no memories of Solomon so he may then have died between 1942 and 1952.

    Although on his birth certificate he was noted as Solomon Robert Smith he is noted as Robert Solomon Smith on his marriage certificate.

    I live in Scotland and have no English ancestors alive who can help and wondered if anyone can help.

    I know that in 1918 he was listed as a gunner in the RHA but can find no service record and his occupation is listed as a postman in 1942 when his son got married. I also know that Isabella remarried I think to a Leonard Rolfe after Solomon died but do not have a not have any dates.

    If anyone can help me with his death I would be most greatful.

    Steven

    PS I hope I have given as much information as I can.

  • #2
    Ancestry are working towards a full searchable transcription of the English/Welsh death indexes by the end of 2009. In the meantime you have to search the indexes quarter by quarter. If you have an Ancestry sub. or access to Ancestry at your local library it won't cost anything.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't find a marriage for an Isabella Smith to a Leonard Rolfe. That would have narrowed it down at least.
      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

      Comment


      • #4
        Chrissie on Isabella's death certificate she is known as Isabel Rolfe (date of death 11/7/1984). Perhaps on her marriage certificate she is known as Isabel Smith or even Isabel Ward.

        I don't know if this helps. I should have put this on my original post. Sorry

        Steven

        PS I can't even find Isabella's (or Isabels) birth certificate even although on her death certificate it confirms her date of birth as 27/12/1895 at Plaistow in Newham.

        Solomon and Isabella have given me the merry go round for ages, enjoyable but hard!!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by stevie2006 View Post
          PS I can't even find Isabella's (or Isabels) birth certificate even although on her death certificate it confirms her date of birth as 27/12/1895 at Plaistow in Newham.
          It´s only accurate if the person who registered her death was sure of her date of birth!
          How old was she on the 1901 census?
          Have you discounted these - the first one year too early, the second one year too late!

          Births Mar 1895
          Ward Isabel
          W. Ham 4a 222

          Births Dec 1897
          WARD Isabella Louisa
          W. Ham 4a 345
          Elaine







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          • #6
            How about this -

            Eric L Rolfe to Isabel E Smith - Jul-Aug-Sep 1947 - Ilford Essex - 5a 1274
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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            • #7
              Possible birth?

              Births Jun 1894 - Ward Isabel Ethel Hendon 3a 209
              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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              • #8
                Thanks so much guys.

                Isabella was age 6 on the 1901 census and place of birth was noted as West Ham and on the 1911 census she was listed as living in a home for waifs and strays aged 16 so I guess 1895 would be a good bet. What do you think?

                Re Solomon if Isabella was remarried in 1947 that would place his death sometime between 1942 and 1947.

                Steven

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                • #9
                  I have to go now Steven but if you are still stuck for his death next time I come on I will have a look.
                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                  • #10
                    This one looks quite possible

                    Deaths Q/E June 1946

                    Smith Solomon R. Age 50 Ilford Vol 4a Page 340
                    Jackie

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                    • #11
                      Thanks ever so much guys looks like I have a decision to make re Isabella but the 1895 looks the best bet.

                      The date of death for Solomon looks the most hopeful yet. My wife is sick of me ordering ones that are wrong!!!

                      Many thanks again

                      Steven

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                      • #12
                        Elaine re the birth of Isabel in 1895 do you know what quarter it was in ? I think this may look like the most likely birth. 1895 was the date that matches both the 1901 census and 1911 census and it also said on both these census that place of birth was West Ham which also matches the birth you gave me. Were the ages of children fairly accurate. I know that in earlier census they were sometimes just estimated.

                        Jackie thanks for the information on Solomon that is the best information I have received to date on him. It looks a very good bet as it also has the middle initial R which hopefully stands for Robert and I am guessing that Solomon's son (my grandfather) had an address as Ilford and you would have thought he would have been staying with his father prior to his marriage.

                        If this works out this would get me some closure of my great grandparents as I have Solomon's birth and marriage certificates already and I have Isabella's death certificate. My dad also came up trumps with a couple of photo's of Isabella as he could remember many visits to London from Scotland when he was a boy. His sister (my auntie) also came up with the only photo of Solomon that anyone seems to have which was fantastic.

                        Thanks again to all who have helped me this has certainly been the best forum I have been on.

                        Steven

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                        • #13
                          Received death certificate for Solomon Robert Smith for 7/4/1944 and it was correct. I also received the birth certificate for his wife Isabel Ward for 27/12/1894 and again it was correct. Just wanted to thank everyone who helped.

                          I know have a complete picture for my great grandparents on my fathers side (birth and death for each of them). I still cannot find a birth or death for Solomon's father who was also called Solomon. Looks like I have hit the proverbial brick wall. At least I have him in various censuses and I also have his marriage certificate to Mary Ann Stokes on 25/12/1892 aged 22. His place of birth on the 1911 census is given as Heyford Northampton and his age is given as 40.

                          You can't always win them all but I would not have got so far without the help of this forum.

                          Regards

                          Steven

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                          • #14
                            never give up giving up!!!

                            perhaps someone can come up with a solution to your problem Steven,

                            even now, I have been learning/re learning stuff that I thought I had forgotten :D

                            throw the queries out to the lions.. if you dont ask you don't get!!!
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

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                            • #15
                              Thanks Julie I think I will take your advice and throw out another person for the guys to help me with.

                              The person I have hit a brick wall with is Solomon Smith (senior). I have him on all the censuses. In the most recent of 1911 I have him age 40 with a birth place given as Heyford Northampton. In the 1901 I have him age 30 with a birth place as Shamford, Lincoln. In 1891 he is age 24 with a birth place again as Heyford Northampton and in 1881 he is age 16 with birth place Heyford. I have located his marriage certificate to Mary Ann Stokes on 25/12/1892 and his age is given as 22.

                              Therefore his birth may be around 1870/1871 given you would think the most recent censuses would have a more accurate record of his age. His occupation is given as bargeman, boatman and in 1892 is recorded as a labourer. The birth place Heyford is the most common.

                              His parents are listed as James Smith and Hannah Smith (maiden name unknown). Obviously with a name like James Smith it is unlikely I will get any further down the Smith line but it would be good to get some closure on Solomon.

                              Can anyone help with Solomon senior's birth of death records ?

                              Any help would be fantastic

                              Steven

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                              • #16
                                Steven,

                                my first port of call would be to look in Heyford baptism records, if you cannot find a birth record, then maybe he was baptised instead of registered. Considering that the birth was in 1871/72 then it would not of come under the compulsory registration that took part in 1875.

                                so a baptism looks more likely, and solomon isnt exactly a common name is it?
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I think you have a problem here as I am not sure the family actually know (or remember) where Solomon was born!

                                  I presume this is the 1881 census details that you have:

                                  James Smith c 1821 Sharnton, Warwickshire - occ. boatman
                                  Hannah Smith c1822 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
                                  Hannah Smith c 1863 West Bromwich, Staffordshire,
                                  Solomon Smith c 1865 Heyford, Northamptonshire,

                                  living on Canal Grain Boat, Coventry Holy Trinity, Warwickshire
                                  RG11; Piece: 3071; Folio: 110; Page: 17

                                  Trying to find this family in 1871 the closest I can come up with is:

                                  James Smith c 1818 Shenstone Staffs - occ canal boat ??
                                  Hannah Smith c 1824 Tipton Staffs
                                  James Smith c 1854 Banbridge Cheshire
                                  Hannah Smith c 1863 West Breenwick, Staffordshire
                                  Solomon Smith c 1865 Weedon, Buckinghamshire

                                  living on Canal at Darlaston, Staffs
                                  RG10; Piece: 2956; Folio: 124; Page: 1

                                  If this is the same family then you can see that Solomon is recorded as being born in Weedon. The registration district for Weedon is Aylesbury - but there is no registration listed.
                                  Elaine







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                                  • #18
                                    Just been doing a bit of a Google and found this address, which suggests another Weedon in Northampton - on a canal. Canalboat Holidays
                                    The Boatyard, High Street, Weedon, NORTHAMPTON, NN7 4QD

                                    Aylesbury does have the Grand Union canal, but I don't think it goes through the Weedon in Bucks - could be wrong though!

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                                    • #19
                                      I'm far from being one of the experts on here Steven, but this is my opinion, for what it's worth :Big Grin:

                                      Firstly, I would have thought that the earlier birth dates would have been the closest. For instance, if that family that Elaine found in 1871 is the right one, and it certainly looks a good possibility, they would know the difference between a baby and a child of 5/6. It's harder to guess ages when you are older. Secondly, if they were travelling about on a canal boat he may very well not have been registered in the same place that he was born. When the parents were asked where he was born for the census they would no doubt give the place he was actually born, not the place he was registered (if he was actually registered.

                                      Looking at the possible Solomon Smith births I think my first attempt would be the July-Sept 1865 in Walsall 6b 611, stipulating the parents as James Smith and Hannah. Walsall is Staffordshire but they do seem to have spent a bit of time there. I don't think this one is going to be easy but never give up.

                                      Good luck :smilee:
                                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Have just checked Genuki and there is a Weedon Beck in Northamptonshire, registration district Daventry, and also a Weedon Lois, registration district Towcester.

                                        So based on that what about this birth registration:
                                        Births Jun 1866
                                        SMITH Soloman
                                        Daventry volume 3b, page 103

                                        As Chrissie has suggested, whatever you order then I think you should put the parents' names as a checking reference - or better still why not apply through the local Register Office who generally seem to be more helpful (and lest costly) when you need confirmation you have the right certificate.
                                        Elaine







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