any ideas please?

[ragdollsophie]

hi you have been a great help over one side of my tree so hoping someone can come up with a solution to this problem!
here is the family i have from the census records
1891 Census
7 Records found



Piece: RG12/311 Place: Mile End Old Town -London Enumeration District: 36
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town Ecclesiastical Parish: St. Lukes
Folio: 105 Page: 25 Schedule: 164
Address: 49 Wilson Street

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
LAKE John Head M M 48 Horse Keeper(Em'ee) London - Paddington
LAKE Jane Wife M F 42 - London - St George In East
LAKE Martha Dau S F 19 Confectioner(Em'ee) London - Mile End
LAKE George Son S M 13 - London - St George In East
LAKE Maria Dau S F 10 - London - St George In East
LAKE Mary Ann Dau S F 7 - London - Mile End
LAKE Charles Son S M 4 - London - Mile End


incorrectly named as sate in this census

1881 census - household transcription
Person: SATE, John
Address: 32 Batty St, St George In The East

Cost:
Transcriptions are free for this set of records.

Images for the 1881 census are not currently available.


census search results redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SATE, John Head Married M 40 1841 Groom Stableman
Paddington
Middlesex
SATE, Jane Wife Married F 30 1851 Tailoress
Stepney
Middlesex
SATE, Martha Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Mile End
Middlesex
SATE, John Son Single M 5 1876
St George East
Middlesex
SATE, George Son Single M 2 1879
St George East
Middlesex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
453 Folio:
105 Page:
40

Registration District:
St George in the East Sub District:
St Mary EnumerationDistrict:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
St George in the East Municipal Borough:
Address:
32 Batty St, St George In The East County:
Middlesex

my problem is, apart from charles lake, who is my grandad, i can find no records of this family. no marriage, death or birth records. my aunt has helped me a lot with my tree and as john lake is her grandfather i would love to be able to tell her something about him. word is that john commited suicide. he does,nt appear in 1911 so we assume sometime in between census records. she would love to know if indeed this is true. fingers crossed for any info you can give on the family. janes maiden name was either nichols or nicholson.
thankyou all
best wishes

[Little Nell]

If you only have him in 1881 and 1891 he may be mistranscribed in other censuses, or he might have died before 1901.

[Little Nell]

I can't find a likely death reference for him. If he had committed suicide there might be an inquest but hard to find it if he isn't indexed.

[Little Nell]

Right, I can't find a baptism or a likely birth reference or any other census entries for this man.

[Little Nell]

this might be Martha's birth:

Emily Martha Lake
1872 Apr-May-Jun Mile End Old Town
1c Page: 553

Can't find a marriage. Perhaps John Lake wanted to hide from officialdom? Or maybe he changed his name to Lake later on.

[Little Nell]

Where did you get the information about Jane's maiden name, because I can't find her in 1871 or 1861, unless she was incorrect about her birthplace/year in 1881/91.

[SuffolkSue]

Theres this marriage in the indexes

Jane Nicholls
1869
Mar qtr.
District: Mile End Old Town
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 901


One of the mans name on the same page is John LAIT



This marriage is on the IGI
21st March, 1869 = St. Thomas, Stepney.

Johns father is given as Richard.

[kylejustin]

these may be possibilities:

Deaths Mar 1904
LUKE John 62 Holborn 1b 439

Deaths Jun 1904
LUKE John 61 Paddington 1a 14

you should try to find them in the census, if you cant, one could be your man.
my 3rd great grandmother was a luker, her name is written differently every time i see it. luca, luka, lukke, lucker, luker, lucer, lucas, lucan, etc. think of how the name may be written in old handwriting, how it sounds. your man is there somewhere, it will just take time.

[kylejustin]

in the census i would look for t/s/l/f/ake, t/s/l/f/uke. believe it or not, but some of these are actual names!!

[ragdollsophie]

gosh thanks for all the replies! just got home from work and seen them all!! certainly you have done way better than me lol. my aunt said his wifes maiden name was nichols or nicholson. i shall do as you all suggest and look for alternative names, i did think thehad maybe changed their name to lake later on!
thanks again for your replies, most helpful:D

[ragdollsophie]

kylejustin, i dont think either of the deaths is correct, he is buried in tower hamlets east london although the grave cant be found, no marker?? so i assume he was still living in est end when he died
regards

[kylejustin]

now its just trying to find the right certificate then? what do you have concerning the burial entry? does it give an address? or a date of death?

[ragdollsophie]

only info i have is from my aunt, his grandaughter. he died in bethnal green where he lived and was buried at tower hamlets. she does,nt know when only that her dad, johns son was a young boy. as he is on the 1901 census and not on the 1911 we can only assune it between those dates. sorry thats all i have!

[Uncle John]

Is it possible he died in hospital, which could be central London or somewhere else unexpected. For example Whipps Cross hospital which is now in Waltham Forest but at one time came under Epping.

[ragdollsophie]

sadly uncle john we have no idea as to the exact place he died, wether home or hospital. it would help thats for sure!
regards

[ragdollsophie]

apologies just found jane lake in 1901 census , occupation dressmaker , status, widow. so he did die before 1901.
:o

[ragdollsophie]

hi sue i checked out the marriage with jane nicholls/john lait. can i assume that if both names have the same volume and page numbers that they married each other? as both sets of numbers match can i say that this is their marriage?

[SuffolkSue]

Yes they were definitely married to each other as the marriage appears on Familysearch.

FamilySearch.org - Search


Just put the names in the search boxes and the marriage will come up.


Getting the cert will of course give you further info and the witnesses could also prove useful.

[ragdollsophie]

woo hoo thanks!! a result! i can now order the certificate with confidence. thanks to everyone for their assistance
xx

[kylejustin]

just to clarify, do you have the information from the burial register? if your aunt is only going on memory, and she doesnt have any papers with his burial information, it would be worth contacting the cemetery, they could give you burial dates, and poss a death date.