View Full Version : good morning ..can someone confirm my findings please !

17-08-09, 11:18
good morning..
I have invited Ozlibby off another site to join us here on FTF
Libby is looking for the dob and parents of Mary Sillitoe b 1859 Neston...
I have her babtism on CPRDb...
also in the 1871 census in Gayton , Neston is a very likely match to her family...on CPRDb the first 2 in this family are born LIVERPOOL but babtised Neston...there is also an older child b 1849 on CPRDb....IF it`s the right family...because of the 2 L`pool births I checked for a marriage of Marys parents in Liverpool and came up with a match......if some kind soul would backtrack on my findings and could we see if they match...I am expecting Libby to post in an hour.(or maybe tomorrow if it`s too late in Australia)....anyway...if anyone has any free time I would appreciate someone checking for me....cheers...allan;)

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 12:17
Well the first thing I would start with is finding a Mary Sillitoe born c1859 Neston on a census ... and at the moment I can't!

How does Libby know that Mary was born in Neston?
Did Mary marry in the UK - does Libby have the marriage certificate?

Allan, have you found her on a census - if so can you give some details please.

17-08-09, 12:39
Hiya Elaine ..thanks
RG10 3739/33/36 Gayton Mill ,Gayton ,Neston ,Wirral
do you want me to post what I have found ?....allan:)

added...Libbys original posting stated
I am looking for the dob and parents of Mary Sillitoe Neston Wirral NES/7/35 b1859

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 12:46
Thanks Allan. Have found that - but before starting to work back I would need some proof that we have the right family, for example a marriage certificate for Mary which states father is Daniel. Do you know where and when Mary married, or if indeed she did? In my mind you need something to tie her in with this family before working back!

Having said that, if Libby knows this is the right family then there is a christening on Family Search pilot site which could be the right one:

Mary Sillitoe, christened Heswall, Cheshire 6th March 1859, parents Daniel and Mary. Occupation for Daniel - labourer. (Image of parish register available to view).

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 13:03
Is this the possible marriage you have found Allan

Marriages Sep 1848
Liverpool 20 297

If so this could be Daniel and Mary in 1851, mistranscribed on Ancestry as Stiteton.
HO107; Piece: 2177; Folio: 455; Page: 41
- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=daniel&gsln=&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f27=&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=mary&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=liverpool&prox=1&db=uki1851&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=76&h=11494706&recoff=1+24&fsk=CIAAIpwAlPKz&bsk=&pgoff=)

17-08-09, 13:08
you must be a mind reader....did you hear me cussing ?
JUST had a PM from Libby
Mary Sillitoe marries William Hayes 1882 Liverpool(she dies 1912)...she doesn`t have Marriage cert but knows it to be right......Libby has just registered 30 mins ago so I`m waiting for her to come on line and join in on this post.....allan :)

17-08-09, 13:09
yes Elaine...thats the marriage I have found...allan;)
ADDED...IS Hannah with them on 1851 census?....allan

17-08-09, 13:12
I found the family babtims on CPRdb - Version v3.3 - 7 March 2005 (http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb) ..database / babtisms...allan:)

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 13:15
Libby was waiting in the queue waiting to be accepted as a member - have just pressed the button so she should now be able to post on the forum! :)

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 13:18
ADDED...IS Hannah with them on 1851 census?....allan

1851 census shows
Daniel - age 28
Mary - age 29
- no children listed

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 13:22
Struggling to find Daniel and Mary in 1861 census.

17-08-09, 13:22
she has JUST posted at 1249 pm that she has Marys marriage cert and Marys father is William Sillitoe occ Labourer..mother ????...sorry Elaine...so all that was for nothing...I`ll start again...be back later hopefully....allan:(

Elaine ..Spain
17-08-09, 13:31
Does Libby have the 1891 and 1901 census - or does she know anything about Mary and William Hayes - any children - where were they living - year and place of birth for William? Why does she think Mary was born in Neston? Where was she living when she married? Who were the witnesses?

17-08-09, 13:32
Libby....when you read this could you clarify ..
you quote Mary Sillitoe b Neston 1859 Nes /7/35
you state father William occ labourer on Marys Marriage certificate to William Hayes in 1882 in Liverpool....so we are looking for Mary Sillitoe , father William in Neston in 1861 census....does that make sense ?....allan:confused:....added
Hi Elaine...find it strange that Mary would marry in Liverpool unless she moved there....allan

Harrys mum
17-08-09, 13:34
From one Oz Libby to another....I'd just like to say Welcome.....

Rachel Scand
17-08-09, 17:32
The only Mary Sillitoe with Wiiliam as father on the LDS is a Christening 20th May 1860 ~ Habergham-Eaves, Lancs.

Mlother Alice Hargreaves

It is extracted

17-08-09, 23:42
Thanks Rachel......allan;)

18-08-09, 00:04
I am not a Libby but am an Aussie so welcome Libby

18-08-09, 00:49
OK taken from the 1878 Cheshire directory...
William Charles Sillitoe 30 Stanley rd New Ferry,Wirral.....it`s not too far from Neston...can we see if Mary Sillitoe b 1859 Neston is at this address in the 1871 census,,,Mary would be 12 on this census....allan;)

Rachel Scand
18-08-09, 15:05
Ancestry keeps saying it's busy

Meanwhile, Is Neston in Lancs ? some of us are not very good with Counties north of London (or anywhere else really !) :confused:

Elaine ..Spain
18-08-09, 15:17
Rachel, I think it is classed as Cheshire on census and civil registration.

Rachel Scand
18-08-09, 15:34
Thanks Elaine ~ giving up :( ~ can't find anything useful

Elaine ..Spain
18-08-09, 15:38
I'm struggling to find anything either. I have tried to do an address search on the info you have given Allan, but nothing showing relating to a William Stillitoe.

Libby - can you fill us in with what you have got about the family.
Why do you think Mary was born in Neston?
Do you have the 1891 and 1901 census?
Did Mary and William Hayes have any children?
Where was Mary living when she married?
Who were the witnesses?

18-08-09, 20:40
sorry girls ...spent the day at the caravan getting her ready for the weekend....we need Libby to put us wise with where she got her info ,apart from Marys Marriage Cert...........allan:)

31-08-09, 19:41
Hi Allan,

Mary Sillitoe is my Great Grandmother, I have her photograph taken just before she died in 1942.


01-09-09, 12:50
Thats great news Nige,,,,as you can see I was helping OZLIBBY because my family were from Neston and I had a few pointers for her....I have PM`d Libby with the good news....when she gets in touch I`ll let you know....allan.....and thank you all for your help......FTF has another contact success.....:D

01-09-09, 19:01
Neston was classed as Cheshire whilst Liverpool was Lancashire. I remember reading a thread recently on another site about people from the Wirral marrying in Liverpool & apparently it was quite common.

01-09-09, 20:04
Yes Lesley...some of mine did....St Nicholas was a bit like Gretna Green...as they just put up the bans and didn`t ask questions....allan;)

01-09-09, 20:55
Hiya, just got in from work.
Mary Sillitoe 1859-1942 born in Gayton, F. Daniel, M. Mary Barlow. She married only once to John Edwin Hall b.1852, a train driver from Wappenham, Northants who died in 1906. He was previously married to Eliza Bennett from Crick and had three girls, one or two emigrated to Oz (my Nan always said that she had half sisters).
John and Mary had May, Emma (known as Elsie), William and Jessie (my Nan), Sadly, May died in 1939 - probably doped with morphine in Clatterbridge hospital. I have a photo taken by William Hall in Heswall of Mary, May and William's lady, Sarah Olive Randles who may have been married to him at that time or not as yet. I guess that the photo was snapped around 1939.
I have researched the Sillitoes back to Audlem in Cheshire (maybe even Wybunbury). One branch might be in West Kirby these days and I have been told that a Percy Sillitoe was very, very high up in the Police Force.

Mary from Italy
01-09-09, 22:24
If it's this one, he was Director-General of MI5...

Percy Sillitoe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Sillitoe)

02-09-09, 03:29
Dear FTF friends,

I am so sorry I haven't been part of this discussion. I have only just found you thanks to Garsonite! I found it difficult to navigate my way to you. Now I am here!! I know from Marriage Cert that Mary was married in Liverpool to William Hayes, her father was William Sillitoe, labourer. William and Mary had a daughter Elizabeth who is my gg grandmother. Alas, the Mary that Nige has is another Mary, it is possible she was recorded as Agnes Mary or Mary Agnes, I will dig up what I have here but I am away now till Sunday out in the Australian bush - so offline till next week. Thank you all again for your valiant efforts to help. I really appreciate it.


02-09-09, 06:53
Actually MI5 sounds about right, Mary, thanks for confirming this.

Sorry about misleading you, Libby, my Mary Sillitoe married in 1895 in Liverpool.


06-09-09, 04:20

Marriage Cert has Albert Loder and Louise Sweet as witnesses. I have 1891 Census living in Wallasey William 27, Agnes (Mary) 27, and children Agnes 3, Anne 4, Edith 1, Elizabeth 6.

Perhaps the Neston birth is a red herring?

I think the promising one is the Christening in 1860 although the dates aren't quite right I guess ages were not always accurate?

Any suggestions on finding the birth?


06-09-09, 06:53

Just following my nose here on LDS and found William C Silitoe on the 1881 Census living in Cheshire with wife Mary and presume kids had grown and left home. This is possibly the parents of my Mary Agnes Sillitoe but I need help with previous census data. I can't find the marriage of these two either.

So...can someone help with earlier census for William and Mary Silitoe and possibly with a marriage? She was born in Sussex in 1831 so maybe the marriage is over that way? I have been looking in Lanc and Chesh. - I don't know if this is them but perhaps a census with daughter mary agnes will help to confirm? William says born in Liverpool which is encouraging. Although he was listed as labourer on his daughter's wedding cert on the 1881 C it says commercial clerk, cotton broker - is that a likely career change?

thanks for any help you can give.


06-09-09, 06:55
Hi Nige,

Not giving up on you yet, do you have names of grandparents? they might be cousins?


Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 08:12
1861 census
RG9; Piece: 2637; Folio: 48; Page: 19
- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1861%2c&rank=0&gsfn=mary&gsln=&sx=&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1831&rs_81004011__date=5&f14=&f15=midhurst&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=william&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=0&h=8824306&recoff=1+97)

William C Sillitoe 31
Mary S E Sillitoe 35
Alice M Sillitoe 6
Adeline Sillitoe 4
Charles E Sillitoe 2
Alfred E Sillitoe 2 Mo
Isabella Caveen 18 - servant
Christina E C Broadbent 3

1871 census - mistranscribed on Ancestry as Lillitoe
RG10; Piece: 3795; Folio: 20; Page: 33
- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1871%2c&rank=0&gsfn=mary&gsln=&sx=&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1831&rs_81004011__date=5&f14=&f15=midhurst&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=william&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=2&h=16017130&recoff=1+82)

William C Lillitoe 41
Mary S E Lillitoe 40
Adeline Lillitoe 14
Charles E Lillitoe 12
Henry E Lillitoe 5
Edith M Lillitoe 1
Jessie Christie 23 - servant

Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 08:20
This looks like their marriage:

Marriages Jun 1851
Mary Stening Edgecombe Davey / William Charles Sillital
W. Derby 20 930

Mary was recorded as Mary S E Sillitoe in the 1861/1871 census so the initials fit nicely! (details above),

In 1851 she is living with her family in Toxteth Park:
HO107; Piece: 2186; Folio: 448; Page: 10
Henry Edger Davey 52 - head - born Cornwall (occ. leather dealer)
Garce Edg Davey 62 - wife - born Midhurst
Eliz Jane Eng Daney 28 - daughter, born Midhurst
Mary S Cage Daney 26 - daughter, born Midhurst

06-09-09, 08:21
i saw the same marriage. :o

06-09-09, 08:32
Big family of Davey here in Garston....the Tannery here only closed recently...I am friends with the Davey family....I just wonder if these are descendants of Henry Davey....allan

06-09-09, 08:34
this is really great and super speedy help!
I wonder where daughter Mary is though?

Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 08:37
What do you know about Mary - year/place of birth?
Where have you found her in the census?

06-09-09, 08:53
Elaine / Libby....IF this is the right info...if you go to Lancashire Births Marriages & Deaths (http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk) you will find the marriage of
Mary S.E Davey to William C Sillitoe 2068TP/2/127 IN 1851 is in St Michaels...that is here in Garston....my family church...now I am really interested....lol....clutching at straws but I know this Davey family...and there`s LOADS OF THEM....so did Henry have SONS in the 1841 census that moved to Garston ??....allan..(this is now getting very interesting for me ,but I have to go to Wales at 10`0`Clock......):D

06-09-09, 08:58
thanks Allan, but I don't think it adds up - they didn't have a daughter Mary or Agnes, which is the one I am looking for... what do you think?

I wish I was going to Wales!

I have just been 3 days in the wildflower country and it was spectacular!!


Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 09:03
I am not sure we are on the right line here.

From what I can see we are looking for Mary Sillitoe who married William Hayes - Mary's father was William, occupation labourer.

The William Sillitoe that I have given the census details for gives his occupation as leather dealer, and at one point I think one of the census said he was employing three men. On the 1881 and 1891 census his occupation is Cotton Broker ... there is certainly no hint of him being a labourer anywhere!

Is this the family (in 1891) that you are trying to trace back?

Wm Hayes c 1863 Ireland
Mary E Hayes c1864 Birkenhead, Cheshire
Ada Hayes c 1884 Birkenhead, Cheshire
William Hayes c1889 Birkenhead, Cheshire
Florence May Hayes c 1890 Birkenhead, Cheshire

06-09-09, 09:05
Hi Elaine,

Thanks for your help. Whereabouts in Spain are you?

I adore Spain and visited Grenada and Seville a few years ago. I came back to Aus and started learning flamenco! I only wish I had learned Spanish before I went there, the Spaniards were so unimpressed with me when I spoke English or madly flipped through my phrase book!!

Now... to Mary Agnes Sillitoe. I don't have a birth for her. I have only her marriage to William Hayes in Liverpool in 1882. Her father was also William Sillitoe, labourer (see previous post with details of witnesses too). I don't know if the Mary and William on the census in 1881 are her parents but it seemed to fit - William (Father) born in Liverpool around 1830 marrying a Mary, presumed they may have named their daughter after her mother. The Mary and William you have found looked very promising but they don't have a daughter Mary...should I give up?:(

06-09-09, 09:11
ok, in 1891 I have William Hayes 27 birth 1864 as Head with wife Agnes 27 (Mary Agnes) - says he was born Wallasey and had following children, Agnes 3, Ann 4, Edith 1, Elizabeth 6. This Elizabeth was my gg grandmother. So Mary's origin is a mystery. I had thought perhaps my earlier post of Mary and WIlliam Sillitoe from 1891 might be Mary's parents.

muchas gracias


Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 09:20
Hi Libby, I live on the east coast of Spain, Costa Blanca region. One of my dreams is to visit Australia but I need to win the lottery first!

It's the occupation of William that worries me - I can't see him being recorded on the marriage certificate as a labourer, if he was a cotton broker.

I'll have a search and see if I can come up with anything else.

06-09-09, 09:20
on 1911 Census Agnes (Mary) says she was born Liverpool and that she is 50 - birth around 1861

06-09-09, 09:21
let's do a holiday house swap!

Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 09:32
What a great idea!
Off to hunt for some Sillitoes! :)

06-09-09, 11:19
hope you don't find them on your feet!

Elaine ..Spain
06-09-09, 12:21
Sorry Libby, not having much luck finding anything useful.

07-09-09, 00:06

Thanks for trying, somehow I don't think Mary wants to be found. I have been trying for years. Never mind. Some things we must accept stay in history I guess.

much appreciate your helpfulness


26-02-10, 22:00
Hi Lib,
Only a few months late, I can't remember if I replied or not but things have moved on and I am in touch with Cliff Smith (Neston), Alan Sillitoe (Switzerland) and George Sillitoe (Heswall). George is 93 and the grandson of Joseph Sillitoe (1855-1928), there is oodles of stuff I have collected and I also have a family album with family photos from the mid to late 1800's. One of Mary Sillitoe and even her hubby, John Edwin Hall: Her daughter, my nan was Jessie Hall (1902-1979). Having looked at the family, there's loads of 'em! You and I are distant cousins of some description but don't ask me how far removed, I think there is a photo of my GGG Grandfather Aaron from Wybunbury in this album (1790ish to mid 19th century). The family had Hannah (died young), Thomas, James, Joseph, Mary, Daniel and Richard. My wife and I visited the grave of Daniel Sillitoe (1822-1893) and Mary Barlow (1822-1903) recently, Richard (1864-1943) was buried with them in St Peters, Heswall. He was a head gardener at the Victoria Hotel and worked till he was about 79, he retired and died a week later.


27-02-10, 01:17
Hey lovely to hear from you Nige, I am still not sure we are barking up the same tree - my mary agnes married william hayes, her birth is around 1862 - she died in birkenhead in 1912. They had 3 daughters Elizabeth (my GG mother) Agnes and Eleanor.

Any connections ?

I am coming to UK (Birkenhead) in September to try to get to the bottom of this!


07-10-13, 22:36
Hi Nige
I have been researching my family tree (Purcell). My 2nd great grandfather Hiram Purcell born 1815 married Mary Sillitoe (daughter of Aaron). Hiram was a joiner and cabinet maker in Audlem. Hiram lived in low(e) street in Audlem and the the Sillitoes in High street so Hiram and mary will have known each other before Aaron and family move to Liverpool. Hiram and Mary got married in Liverpool. I have noticed some of the Sillitoe family ended up living in Gayton and later Heswall. I was brought up in Gayton and still live on the Wirral . Do you still live on the Wirral? I would love to see any photos you have. I have built up my family tree on ancestry. I will be taking a walk down Hillside Road and a walk through the grave yard at St Peters church, I was married at St Peters. Its a small world. I have also noticed from the online phone book that there is a John A sillitoe and Josephine V living in CH60 do you know anything of them.
I went to school in North Drive in Heswall 2 roads up from Hillside Road , I wonder if any of the Sillitoes did too!

07-10-13, 23:07
Hi Hilary and welcome to the Forum,
You can contact a member by clicking on their username and sending a private message, if they are still active on their e mail address they will be notified of your message, garstonite who started this thread is still an active member here but Nige does not seem to be still active here but try sending a PM to both members.

Good Luck with the search