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Barbara Dodds
14-08-09, 10:47
PeterJ


Well done Peter, I hope you manage to get a few walls knocked down:)

PeterJ
14-08-09, 14:31
Many thanks - I'm delighted.

My first and hardest problem I'm told is impossible to solve.

My Great Grandparents were classed as aliens having been born in Russian Poland and fleeing to England in the 1890s.

But their real names were never used after arriving here although I don't think they changed them legally - just started calling themselves Terry. Legend has it , after a bar of chocolate somebody gave them on arrival.
They appear on the 1901 census living in Bethnal Green
Joseph Terry b about 1873
Rose Terry nee Heller b about 1877
(plus 3 children who I know all about )

Grandfather's birth certificate from 1897 gives same details.

They later moved to Manchester .

I think this is a dead end - should I draw a line under it ?

Peter

PeterJ
14-08-09, 15:27
My Aunt

Doris E Jones born in Birmingham 1920.

Was married but can find no record

Peter

Elaine ..Spain
14-08-09, 15:49
My Aunt
Doris E Jones born in Birmingham 1920.
Was married but can find no record


I think this is almost impossible to find unless you have more information.
Do you have any idea of a date or place of marriage?
Do you know the names of any children, with approx year of birth.

Doing a search on Ancestry for any marriage of Doris E Jones from 1940 -1960 gives 186 possible marriages.
Of course there is always the possibility that she was just recorded as Doris Jones, in which case there are another 1400 possibles!

PeterJ
14-08-09, 15:56
Beards of Canterbury, Kent

1841 census has
William Beard aged 55 a Cordwainer
Sarah Beard also 55 wife

1851
William Beard a widower b 1847 a Shoemaker (same thing)
Caroline Cox a widow b 1812 in Deal
Richard Beard Cox , given as Caroline's son. b about 1845

They appear to have married on the BMD in 1851
He died 1855

1861
Richard Beard age 15 Permanent Infantry , Canterbury

1871 NOTHING

1881
Now in Hulme Manchester
Richard Beard b 1847 a Police Constable
Emma Beard b 1851 in Dover
plus a son aged 6 also Richard

------------
Questions.


William (b1784) Parents ?
wife Sarah's maiden name ?

Nothing for Richard in 1871 - I think he could have been in India quelling the Mutiny. Possible ?

Can't find wedding to Emma .

Any help appreciated Pete

Elaine ..Spain
14-08-09, 16:09
Possible marriage

Marriages Jun 1873
Beard Richard
Glover Emma
Dover volume 2a page 1330

The birth certificate of Richard W Beard would help to prove it is the right one.

Possible birth registration for Richard
Births Mar 1875
Beard Richard William
Farnham vol 2a page 93

Mary from Italy
14-08-09, 17:27
My Great Grandparents were classed as aliens having been born in Russian Poland and fleeing to England in the 1890s.

But their real names were never used after arriving here although I don't think they changed them legally - just started calling themselves Terry. Legend has it , after a bar of chocolate somebody gave them on arrival.
They appear on the 1901 census living in Bethnal Green
Joseph Terry b about 1873
Rose Terry nee Heller b about 1877
(plus 3 children who I know all about )

Grandfather's birth certificate from 1897 gives same details.

They later moved to Manchester .

I think this is a dead end - should I draw a line under it ?



I don't think this is necessarily a dead end.

On the 1901 census, against the names of Joseph and Rose it says "B.S." which means British subject. That means they were naturalised, so there should be a record somewhere.

Some naturalisations appear in the Gazette; I've had a very quick look, but I can't see them:

London Gazette Home Page (http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/home.aspx?GeoType=London)

Some naturalisations are online on the National Archives site, but again, I can't see them:

Quick search (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/quick_search.aspx?&queryText=)

However, there should be a record at Kew.


The National Archives holds duplicate naturalisation certificates from 1844 to 1969.
Between 1870 and 1969, duplicate naturalisation certificates can be found in HO 334.
Indexes are kept at The National Archives.


The National Archives | Getting started | Family History | Naturalisation (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/naturalisation/?WT.hp=Citizenship%20and%20naturalisation)

As a matter of interest, how do you know they came from Russian Poland?

PeterJ
14-08-09, 17:49
Hi Mary
Thanks for that information.
They are down as Russian Poles on the census & my Grandma said she thought they came from Warsaw. I asked if she knew their real name and she
said "Something-offski". That's as much as anyone knew.
He had to go to the Police station regularly to sign something which made me assume he was an alien.
I asked at Manchester Police Station once but they said all the alien records had been lost in a fire.
Regards Peter

Elaine ..Spain
14-08-09, 17:59
William (b1784) Parents ?
wife Sarah's maiden name ?


I think the only way you are going to get leads on these is via the parish registers.
In 1851 William gives his place of birth as St Mary Northgate, Canterbury, which is the same parish as he is living in 1841 - so that would be a good place to start.
Do you have a LDS centre local to you - if you do you can order the film of the BT´s for St. Mary Northgate to see if they contain anything useful.
Title details ('Archdeacon's transcripts, 1563-181 ') (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=458190&disp=Archdeacon%27s+transcripts%2C+1563-181%20%20&columns=*,0,0)

Mary from Italy
14-08-09, 18:16
I asked at Manchester Police Station once but they said all the alien records had been lost in a fire.


I wouldn't take too much notice of that. It's definitely worth trying at Kew.

Mary from Italy
14-08-09, 18:20
There are some links in the Wiki which may be helpful for Russian and Polish research:

Poland - Family Tree Forum (http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/Poland)
Russia - Family Tree Forum (http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/Russia)

I don't suppose they were Jewish, were they? That makes a difference to where you should be searching.

fiona c
14-08-09, 21:00
The 1851 Marriage for William to Caroline should hopefully give you his fathers name.

Trina
16-08-09, 11:35
Were they Jewish? Seems likely even if they stopped practising. I have some similar relatives on my husband's side and found graves in the local Jewish graveyard. Jewish Gen may be helpful.

Trina
16-08-09, 11:37
Sorry Mary - didn't see your post.

PeterJ
16-08-09, 13:34
Hi Trina

No, Catholic actually.

Best regards Peter