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Goulden/Crowther...brick wall turned to steel!

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  • Goulden/Crowther...brick wall turned to steel!

    Decided to have another go at my Goulden lot and now find that the name became Crowther in 1881...
    I found my grandmother Mary Ellen Goulden in 1901,Chorlton with father John,sister Sarah and lodger Mary Quinn and her daughter.Their surname is spelt Golden.

    In 1891 I found John Goulden with wife Sarah,children Eliza Goulden,Sarah Williams,John Williams and father Thomas Rowbottom...I presume this to be my John (surname spelt Goulden on this census) as next door neighbour is a Mary Quinn...complications have set in as you can see...

    I could not presume on the previous census`s as there are a few John Gouldens and Goldens but 1881 was eluding me..so I searched for him as John and occupation `hawker`...John Crowther came up with wife Sarah,daughter Eliza,son John Henry and brother George Crowther...looked for John Crowther in other census but nothing matched..looked for George but all I could find was a George Crowther,right age, with wife Sarah,right age for Sarah Goulden/Crowther...but thought this is stupid and I dont want to go there..

    Looked at 1911 census for my gran Mary Ellen Goulden and she is there age 17 with Eliza Hampson,Thomas Hampson and is down as Cousin..there is also a Sarah Goulden age 2 shown as cousin.Also listed is John Ward cousin...I sent for marraige cert for Eliza and Thomas and her maiden name is Crowther and father John Crowther a hawker deceased...my grans wedding cert shows father as John Goulden,a hawker but not deceased..

    Looked at 1911 for John Goulden and he is listed as John Golden living with Mary Quinn...I am so muddled up..I cant find a birth for my gran and sent for the cert for the 2yr old Sarah Goulden which shows mother as Sarah Goulden but no father,so this is probably the child of the sister Sarah..if you have lost me on this dont worry as I have completely lost the plot!!!

    Please can someone help me out or make sense of any of this...thank you...so much in anticipation...
    Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

  • #2
    Can you just confirm that the 1891 return that you are looking at has the reference RG12; Piece: 3187; Folio 109; Page 18
    Jeanette
    Don't interpret this smile as happiness; it's insanity! :D

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    • #3
      Yes Jeanette it has...the 1881 for John Crowther is RG11 3924 page 15
      The 1901 for John Golden is RG13 3699 page 20...thanks very much for taking a look...Wanda..
      Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Wanda...I'm still looking at it but it's a bit chaotic here at the mo
        Jeanette
        Don't interpret this smile as happiness; it's insanity! :D

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Jeanette...no worries...have found a birth for an Elizabeth Crowther 1879 Chorlton JAS, could this be mine?...my head is spinning with all these name differences...its like John Goulden has taken over John Crowthers identity,yet I cant find a John Crowther prior to 1881 that matches nor after...Sarah the wife last appears on the 1891 but cant find a death for her but there is a death 1890 in Chorlton for a Sarah Ann Crowther born 1860..thats why I said about George being with a Sarah in 1901 whos birth is 1861..did she go leave John and end up with him? And sorry I made a mistake..George is down as John Crowthers son in the 1881 but he is age 16 so that would be impossible!
          I feel like going rocking in a corner!!!!!!!..Wanda...
          Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

          Comment


          • #6
            I think this search has got a hex on it :D My internet has just been playing up but I'll see if I can carry on
            Jeanette
            Don't interpret this smile as happiness; it's insanity! :D

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmmmmmmmmm.....a marriage for a John Crowther to a Sarah Jane Rowbotham which would fit in with Thomas Rowbotham being the father in 1891

              Marriages Dec 1883
              CROWTHER John Chorlton 8c 1062
              Hartley John Chorlton 8c 1062
              LALLEY Agnes Chorlton 8c 1062
              Rowbotham Sarah Jane Chorlton 8c 1062
              Jeanette
              Don't interpret this smile as happiness; it's insanity! :D

              Comment


              • #8
                See what you mean...so could the Elizabeth Crowther birth in 1879 be right or maybe I should see if theres a birth for Eliza/Elizabeth Rowbotham and also for the John Henry as they were born prior to the marraige...mmmmm..rock..rock..rock...
                Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lancs. BMD has only 4 John Crowther marriages in 1883. Of these only one is in Manchester.

                  John CROWTHER to Sarah J ROWBOTHAM St. Philip, Hulme, Manchester

                  The others are in Bury, Preston and Liverpool.
                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks a lot Uncle John...I think I will send for that cert and see whats on it....

                    I have looked at the births and tried the different surnames and have come up with these..
                    Elizabeth Crowther JAS 1879 Chorlton
                    John Henry Crowther OND 1876 Manchester
                    then a death for John Henry Crowther est birth 1878..death age 8,1886 AMJ,Chorlton..
                    as he doesnt appear in 1891 with John Goulden I presume he may have died...

                    Wanda..
                    Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can I come and join you in your rocking corner :D

                      Were you thinking that Eliza Hampson in 1911 was Eliza Goulden from 1891? Does the age at marriage add up? Were there any witness names on that cert that might give a clue?
                      Jeanette
                      Don't interpret this smile as happiness; it's insanity! :D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Had another look and have found a birth for Sarah Ann Goulden JAS 1888 Chorlton
                        but there is also a birth of Sarah Ann Williams 1888 Chorlton.....

                        God I could cry!!!!!......
                        Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jeanette In Yorkshire View Post
                          Can I come and join you in your rocking corner :D

                          Were you thinking that Eliza Hampson in 1911 was Eliza Goulden from 1891? Does the age at marriage add up? Were there any witness names on that cert that might give a clue?
                          YES and Eliza Crowther from 1881....
                          1911 shows Eliza as 30 and married 15yrs..
                          Marraige cert 7th Sept 1895 age 18yrs..witness Joseph Sheridan and Mary Ann Cassidy.......
                          Things that go bump in the night should never give one a fright...Its the hole in the ear that lets in the fear...That... and the absence of light!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm never quite sure why but my Goulson family in the Lancs area often get transcribed as Coulson in the census and occassionally bmd index, might be worth bearing the typo in mind.


                            I have a Sarah Goulson born c1887 Salford area who as yet doesn't appear in the Lancsbmd or GRO bmd, i'll just throw that one in for reference if anyone stumbles across a reference that could possibly be a match for Sarah Goulden/Goulson/Coulson etc.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                            Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                            My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                            My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

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