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What have i forgotten to check?

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  • What have i forgotten to check?

    I am looking for the marriage of Eliza Mary Garner born 1859 Eccles Lancashire to John Westall ( i know nothing about him). I would also like to find her official death too so have checked
    ancestry
    freebmd
    lancs bmd
    IGI
    but no marriage no census in 1891 or 1901 and no death

    I know she married John Westall as it is written in my notes from 30 years ago when I still had relatives who knew about her. Eliza Mary was known to them as 'Cissy' which I take to mean sister.
    I have found her dead in the burial records online for Manchester council died 21 Feb 1911 aged 52 buried with a john westall aged 82 who died 1910 and mary westall who died aged 78 in 1904. I know there is some connection as i have the original receipt for the internment of john and mary westall (but not for Eliza Mary)

    I have eliza mary in 1881 and backwards in time with her family but she is not with them from 1891 onwards so I am stuck.
    any bright ideas would be most gratefully received.
    thanks
    Angelina

  • #2
    I wonder if she actually married John Westall?

    There is a Mary Garner shown on the 1901 census with John Westall and wife Mary - listed as servant
    RG13; Piece: 3746; Folio: 96; Page: 39
    - Ancestry.co.uk

    The year of births for John and Mary Westall match the burial details you have found.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      was Mary his first wife, or a spinster sister?
      Jess

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      • #4
        Elaine- thanks for that link i had found it too but couldnt make sense of it.
        Jess - the john and mary in the 1901 link above are husband and wife.

        what makes me think they were married was the manchester burial record clearly states 'eliza mary westall' tho i suppose it could have been wishful thinking.

        i was told they eliza and john westall didnt have any children so cant track them forwards either. and she died before 1911 census . I cant find a reasonable husband john westall in the censuses either.
        thanks for looking for me.
        Angelina

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        • #5
          I spent ages looking for a marriage which I knew should have happened in the 1890s.It was only when I did a search with no dates in that I found it in the late 1920s.
          Fran

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          • #6
            The death certificate might give you some more information if you feel like spending £7!
            Elaine







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            • #7
              just realised why that 1901 link didnt seem right - the mary garner was born in Ireland which mine wasnt. tho its very coincidental name name is so close.
              Angelina

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              • #8
                Fran- have searched marriages and deaths for westall and garner from 1882 (when i know she was with her family in 1881) upto 1920 and found zero matches. then i found she died in 1911.! i fear a mistranscription or they were just not in the country. maybe she died abroad? havnet clue here.
                elaine - just paid my subs to FTF so death certifcate will have to wait!!!
                Angelina

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                • #9
                  The Mary Garner with John and Mary Westall (in 1901) was born in Manchester. It was Mary Westall that was born in Ireland.
                  Elaine







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                  • #10
                    Elaine - you are so right and i was so wrong thank goodness you are here to sort me out. thank you so much I will now try marriages again from 1901 as it looks like eliza mary became 'mary' and may or may not have married john westall the son of employers between 1901 and 1911 when she died.

                    thanks very very much. have been at this all day and am losing the plot.
                    thanks for being there.
                    Angelina

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by angelina View Post
                      Elaine - you are so right and i was so wrong thank goodness you are here to sort me out. thank you so much I will now try marriages again from 1901 as it looks like eliza mary became 'mary' and may or may not have married john westall the son of employers between 1901 and 1911 when she died.

                      thanks very very much. have been at this all day and am losing the plot.
                      thanks for being there.
                      As your Eliza Mary was living in as a servant to John and Mary is it possible that after Mary's death in 1904 she continued as his housekeeper and became his "wife" either in fact, or in name in order to make their set up seem more respectable. I know there would have been a 30 year age gap but similar things have happened in my family.
                      Judith passed away in October 2018

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                      • #12
                        Judith
                        I think you are right - i started having suspicions about half an hour ago and have found a marriage at long last on ukbmd for john westall and eliza m garner june 1909 manchester St johns so it all fits. she married her employer five years after his first wife died (and a year before he died too) and that would explain why there are only 3 of them in the grave - husband and 2 wives.!!!!!
                        i did check v quickly thru ancestry and couldnt find any likely sons for eliza to marry. it ws most odd tho that freebmd didnt show up the marriage at all. nor did nacestry. only ukbmd.

                        thanks very much to everyone who has helped you are wonderful!!!!!
                        Angelina

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                        • #13
                          SO SHE DIED A WESTHALL WESTHALL Eliza M 51 Manchester 8d 116 Mar qTR 1911
                          Last edited by Jessbowbag; 10-08-09, 17:35.
                          Jess

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                          • #14
                            Glad you found it Angelina!
                            Elaine







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                            • #15
                              Thanks jess - now i know i have the right one - wonderful
                              I am so happy i have sorted out eliza mary with all your help.
                              trillion thanks.
                              Angelina

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